ZI 28mm Biogon

[Derrick]

Anyone bought the ZI 28mm biogon? Are there any reviews out there that compares it to the 28mm summicron? Does the shop at Plaza Singapura have demo lenses that can be tried out in the shop?

Thought i saw someone selling the 50mm planar within a month of buying it.... no good?

 

[ricohflex]

I open factory. Can sardines. You come to me.
I make them for you. Oh, AYAM brand? No problem!
AYAM brand, then stamped on the product.

Another guy comes to me. He wants me to can sardines for his brand.
No problem! Double Happiness Brand sardines coming up.

Third guy wants me to can Three Rings Brand sardines for him.
No problem! That is what OEM is for. :bsmilie:

Please note.
Of all the new Zeiss Ikon lenses for the new ZI rangefinder made by Cosina.
Only two are made in Germany.
The 15mm F2.8
The 85mm F2.

I don't care what brand name (Voigtlander, Zeiss Ikon, etc...) Kobayashi San puts on the OEM products.
To me they are all Cosinas.
Please note that I am not saying that Cosina is not good.

At least Yashica had the honesty and self-pride to put their own name on their cameras, and not call them "Contax" even though they share the same lens mount.

 

[szekiat]

yashica did call the contax G series lenses zeiss lenses even though it was yashica manufactured. The same applies for the G series bodies. Cosina has merely done the same and bought the voigtlander and zeiss rights.

 

[fuwen]

I think there are some differences.

Yashica made the CONTAX bodies but they actually designed them.

Yashica made the CONTAX lenses (except a few still made by Germany Zeiss) but Zeiss designed the lenses, and that made a big difference in lens performance.

Cosina made the Zeiss Ikon bodies but they actually designed them.

Cosina made the ZM lenses but Zeiss designed the lenses.

Cosina made the Voigtlander bodies and the lenses and they designed both the bodies and the lenses.

Rolleiflex 35mm Zeiss series lenses some are made in Singapore and some by Rollei but they are Zeiss designed lenses.

Rolleiflex 35mm Rolleinar series lenses are made and designed by Japanese like Sigma, Tokina and Mamiya.

 

[surge]

think when they bought the name they must have also bought the technology behind them. thus able to produce great lenses though under a different name. don see anything wrong with them calling them zeiss ro whatever.

if i have money to buy over KFC i would also make sure i got colonel sanders formula and not just him statue to put outside my shop. i also wont get it under my company name and call them tay chong fried chicken. thats what branding is all about

 

[YOL925]

Anyone bought the ZI 28mm biogon? Are there any reviews out there that compares it to the 28mm summicron? Does the shop at Plaza Singapura have demo lenses that can be tried out in the shop?
Thought i saw someone selling the 50mm planar within a month of buying it.... no good?

Yes, they have one ZI 28mm on display the other day I was there. If you talk nicely or make the lady feel that you know this stuff well and not likely to damage the lens, she might allow you to try and hold it (she said I could bring my Leica and try if I am seriously keen. fair enough.).


I used to have the G-series 28mm lens and it is a superb lens. If this ZI one is as good, it would be a winner. However, from the published MTF curves, the G-series appears to be superior, in terms of sharpness/contrast and distortion. I have not come across any review/comparison of this lens vs the summicron yet.

While I understand that ZI lenses are supposed to be Zeiss' design, the actual look and feel of the lens is clearly that of a typical VC signature (the finishing, the colour of marking, the filter mount, the weight...come on, it's just world apart from my Zeiss Biogon 21/4.5 lens for Contax S-series RF.) While I have no doubt these ZI lenses would be very good performers, is it worth paying 2/3 Leica price for them is another question. (for Leica, you pay for both performance and "siok" factor, IMHO, YMMV)

Shalom!

 

[ricohflex]

hey YOL925
what's ymmv?
have you tried the Made by Rollei RF lenses in M mount?
40 and 80.

 

[ricohflex]

I think there are some differences.

Yashica made the CONTAX bodies but they actually designed them.

Yashica made the CONTAX lenses (except a few still made by Germany Zeiss) but Zeiss designed the lenses, and that made a big difference in lens performance.

Cosina made the Zeiss Ikon bodies but they actually designed them.

Cosina made the ZM lenses but Zeiss designed the lenses.

Cosina made the Voigtlander bodies and the lenses and they designed both the bodies and the lenses.

Rolleiflex 35mm Zeiss series lenses some are made in Singapore and some by Rollei but they are Zeiss designed lenses.
Rolleiflex 35mm Rolleinar series lenses are made and designed by Japanese like Sigma, Tokina and Mamiya.

was told by an elderly gentleman Mr. Tan that in the early 1960s, Singapore was basically a third world country without high technology and that the Made in Singapore cams at rollei factory in bedok chai chee were in fact fitted with glass elements made in Germany and just assembled here.
so they are value for money.

 

[XXX Boy]

Yes, they have one ZI 28mm on display the other day I was there. If you talk nicely or make the lady feel that you know this stuff well and not likely to damage the lens, she might allow you to try and hold it (she said I could bring my Leica and try if I am seriously keen. fair enough.).


I used to have the G-series 28mm lens and it is a superb lens. If this ZI one is as good, it would be a winner. However, from the published MTF curves, the G-series appears to be superior, in terms of sharpness/contrast and distortion. I have not come across any review/comparison of this lens vs the summicron yet.

While I understand that ZI lenses are supposed to be Zeiss' design, the actual look and feel of the lens is clearly that of a typical VC signature (the finishing, the colour of marking, the filter mount, the weight...come on, it's just world apart from my Zeiss Biogon 21/4.5 lens for Contax S-series RF.) While I have no doubt these ZI lenses would be very good performers, is it worth paying 2/3 Leica price for them is another question. (for Leica, you pay for both performance and "siok" factor, IMHO, YMMV)

Shalom!

Yes, the Cosina-made Zeiss lenses for ZI camera are very Cosina....the barrel, the finish and etc.
For me, I would rather go for a 2nd hand Leica lenses than those which is Cosina-made. That Mr Kobayasi of Cosina just want fast cash, thats all.
At least Kyocera is honest lo....even in their Contax camera, they always have this Kyocera stamp on it.

 

[YOL925]

hey YOL925
what's ymmv?
have you tried the Made by Rollei RF lenses in M mount?
40 and 80.

Your Mileage May Vary :bsmilie:

No, had not tried Rollei RF 40 and 80, but from the images published in Jap magazines, they are quite different from the Sonnar that I used to know from Rolliflex TLR.

BTW, while Mr Kobayasi of Cosina is no doubt a good businessman, I don't think he is only after $ as some choose to believe.... words has it that he himself is a great Leica fan who would like more people to be able to enjoy RF stuff without paying Leica's price (Voigtlander and the rest is history). It is truely courageous of him to invest heavily in such as small RF market, and guess what? He succeeded!! Kudos to Mr Kobayasi.

 

[Terence]

Funny how a thread that began with the discussion of the characteristics of a lens can degrade into a character assasination of the leading man at Cosina. I feel certain members could relook their posting style, and grow up a little.

What really is the big deal of who puts his name of someone else's product line? In this modern world we live in, it's often the synergy created by the pooling of different talents which brings about innovative products and services. It's a world without boundaries these days and if the shoe fits, why not wear it?

Getting back to the lens in question... I'm the one who has the 50 Planar for sale. Not that it's a bad lens, just that the focal length doesn't quite suit my style. I own the 35 Biogon too and probably the 21 Biogon when funds allow for it. My experience with the 35 and 50 have been a positive one, optically speaking. They are a bit larger than the CV glass I've been using but that's common amongst the f/2 and faster lenses. Build quality is pretty good, the focus rings could be a little smoother. Aperture ring moves in 1/3 stops which is pretty rare. I'd imagine the other lenses will share similar optical characteristics and build quality. Personally, I think the 21 and 85 will the real shiners of the group. The 35 stays on my Bessa half the time.

 

[XXX Boy]

Funny how a thread that began with the discussion of the characteristics of a lens can degrade into a character assasination of the leading man at Cosina. I feel certain members could relook their posting style, and grow up a little.

What really is the big deal of who puts his name of someone else's product line? In this modern world we live in, it's often the synergy created by the pooling of different talents which brings about innovative products and services. It's a world without boundaries these days and if the shoe fits, why not wear it?

Getting back to the lens in question... I'm the one who has the 50 Planar for sale. Not that it's a bad lens, just that the focal length doesn't quite suit my style. I own the 35 Biogon too and probably the 21 Biogon when funds allow for it. My experience with the 35 and 50 have been a positive one, optically speaking. They are a bit larger than the CV glass I've been using but that's common amongst the f/2 and faster lenses. Build quality is pretty good, the focus rings could be a little smoother. Aperture ring moves in 1/3 stops which is pretty rare. I'd imagine the other lenses will share similar optical characteristics and build quality. Personally, I think the 21 and 85 will the real shiners of the group. The 35 stays on my Bessa half the time.

Yo bro! I did not character assasination of the leading man at Cosina. I just say he wanted fast cash. Everyone in this world wanted cash, isn't it?
What is business without cash anyway?
And also one question for you since you support Cosina Inc so much, if Leica M cameras was made by Cosina, do u think you would buy?

 

[Terence]

And also one question for you since you support Cosina Inc so much, if Leica M cameras was made by Cosina, do u think you would buy?

If such an occurence would come to past, I would assume the cameras would not been hand made as they currently are and as such, I would be paying an amount that is correspondingly less. Doesn't matter who makes them, I'd rate the camera on its own merits. It's not as if the Leica name has not been badged on bodies not made by Leica AG. Go check with Minolta.

 

[Derrick]

Yes, they have one ZI 28mm on display the other day I was there. If you talk nicely or make the lady feel that you know this stuff well and not likely to damage the lens, she might allow you to try and hold it (she said I could bring my Leica and try if I am seriously keen. fair enough.).

I used to have the G-series 28mm lens and it is a superb lens. If this ZI one is as good, it would be a winner. However, from the published MTF curves, the G-series appears to be superior, in terms of sharpness/contrast and distortion. I have not come across any review/comparison of this lens vs the summicron yet.

While I understand that ZI lenses are supposed to be Zeiss' design, the actual look and feel of the lens is clearly that of a typical VC signature (the finishing, the colour of marking, the filter mount, the weight...come on, it's just world apart from my Zeiss Biogon 21/4.5 lens for Contax S-series RF.) While I have no doubt these ZI lenses would be very good performers, is it worth paying 2/3 Leica price for them is another question. (for Leica, you pay for both performance and "siok" factor, IMHO, YMMV)

Shalom!

Thanks for answering my question. I'm intending to find a 28mm for my digital rather than my film camera becos of the crop factor, so will try and find time to go and see if they allow me to try it. Probably just bring my laptop down as well..... test the whole lot. Haha.

I would still rather buy a second hand 28mm summicron but i've never seen a second hand one for sale before. New is still out of my budget. Anyone have one for sale?

 

[XXX Boy]

Thanks for answering my question. I'm intending to find a 28mm for my digital rather than my film camera becos of the crop factor, so will try and find time to go and see if they allow me to try it. Probably just bring my laptop down as well..... test the whole lot. Haha.

I would still rather buy a second hand 28mm summicron but i've never seen a second hand one for sale before. New is still out of my budget. Anyone have one for sale?

I would suggest you to get a used Leica lenses over ZI. The resell value of Leica is much higher than any other makes.

 

[YOL925]

Thanks for answering my question. I'm intending to find a 28mm for my digital rather than my film camera becos of the crop factor, so will try and find time to go and see if they allow me to try it. Probably just bring my laptop down as well..... test the whole lot. Haha.

I would still rather buy a second hand 28mm summicron but i've never seen a second hand one for sale before. New is still out of my budget. Anyone have one for sale?

But 28mm on digital would become a standard lens, rite?
Anyway, if you are serious about paying for Leica 28mm Summicron or M24mm ASPH (both above $3K new I think), you may want to try them out on your digital first. I have both and would not mind letting you try taking some digital shots (OK, even with M21ASPH).

Cheers,
YOL

 

[szekiat]

I would suggest you to get a used Leica lenses over ZI. The resell value of Leica is much higher than any other makes.

I'll point out that you cannot compare used prices against that of a new 28mm. Eggs with eggs, meat with meat, etc. A used CV lens goes for about 350-450 depending on condition. You are almost assured of selling it at the same price you got it, if you don't damage it. The same applies to a used leica lens. Unless you happen to keep your leica lens for another 50yrs or so, in which case u might see a slight appreciation in price. On the other hand if you are comparing new prices, in terms of percentages, whether you buy a leica, ZM or CV, you lose about 40% at sale. In which case, i'd rather get a ZM or CV simply because in absolute terms, 40% of a smaller initial is still a lot less.
To each his own i guess. I shoot leica btw. Sold all my CV for a couple of crons but thats just me. For me, some things are beyond monetary value.

 

[Derrick]

On the other hand if you are comparing new prices, in terms of percentages, whether you buy a leica, ZM or CV, you lose about 40% at sale. In which case, i'd rather get a ZM or CV simply because in absolute terms, 40% of a smaller initial is still a lot less.

Not really, the only leica lens i bought new, i think i only lost about $50-$100 when i eventually sold it cos it was too slow (Tri-Elmar). Think its becos the they keep on jacking up the new prices and becos of the strong euro. Next price increase will be soon.

 

[Derrick]

But 28mm on digital would become a standard lens, rite?
Anyway, if you are serious about paying for Leica 28mm Summicron or M24mm ASPH (both above $3K new I think), you may want to try them out on your digital first. I have both and would not mind letting you try taking some digital shots (OK, even with M21ASPH).

Cheers,
YOL

Yah, the 28mm will become about 42mm. A 21mm (about 32mm) or 24mm (about 36mm) would be closer to my favorite preferred focal length of 35mm on film camera but have to use an accessory viewfinder which i don't like.

I'll take you up on your offer to let me try out the 28mm, etc on my digicam. Will PM you to see when we can meet up. Thanks!

 

[ricohflex]

I would still rather buy a second hand 28mm summicron but i've never seen a second hand one for sale before. New is still out of my budget. Anyone have one for sale?

There was one 28mm on offer with M6TTL and 90 F2 recently in CS.
Sold very fast.