why are videographers charging so low?

[Blade777]

I have been doing video for about 10 years and then took a break for 2 years and just recently returned to the market.

I am very VERY shocked by the current market rate that some videographers are offering. WHY undercut until so low and i cant understand how you
are going to recover your equipment costs not forgetting your labour.

Equipments are getting more expensive and bills are going up...but videographers are charging in the reverse direction.

Sigh... its so sad!

 

[zpengantin]

bro, can elaborate low?
malay market or chinese market
for malay market, market price now is about 1250 for single shooters,
dont know for chinese market.

 

[artistrik]

Bro, it's a major tragedy for all involved in the film and video market. From the 35mm camera, to the tape systems to the card systems to now, even an SD card can be used. From once a beloved profession, now it is more like a competition for more jobs for these guys who undercut. What all these young guys with their DSLRs don't understand that by undercutting, our market is being prostituted into a quick sham for young students to make a quick buck.

Such is the route to technology, everything being replaced. Even the once all important focus puller can be replaced by an intelligent focus system.

However as much as our cameras are downsizing, I do not believe that our prices should. To keep up with the technology is a must but the love for the craft will keep on going with our prices. At the end of the day, our rates are justified by the quality of our work and the experience we carry with us.

I urge all videographers out there in the wedding market to any other market to put your artistic credibility and capability before all. Sure, you are there to provide a service but once all you care about is having a good lick at your client's balls and money, you've lost all respect for yourself and your craft.

 

[alternus]

I believe those charging "low" largely fall into the follow groups, a) those who are accumulating experience and portfolio and is willing to bite the bullet temporarily for long term gains, b) those who has a full time job and is doing video out of passion for nominal payments, c) those who have a highly efficient workflow, or offer lesser deliverables that allow them to take volume and charge "low" prices sustainably.

I've been shooting for more than 8 yrs and was previously in the above-mentioned categories at various stages of my journey. Its a free market. No one owes anyone anything. In fact I applaud those new comers who are in category a). Whenever I meet such a videographer, I never fail to share my past experiences and offer encouragement.

We now live in a high-speed information age that renders fair competition. The adage of "you get wat you pay for" couldn't be more true. Hence there is no reason to be upset with customers who prefers to pay less for lower quality or less deliverables. The only reason for all of us to be upset will be when cheap service providers set high expectations in the consumers and underdeliver the goods, hence giving the industry a bad name.

 

[Blade777]

bro, can elaborate low?
malay market or chinese market
for malay market, market price now is about 1250 for single shooters,
dont know for chinese market.

Hi bro,

I attended my friends Malay wedding about a month ago as a guest.
My friend picked up the videoguy and the photographer at this forum.
Event started ard 8am....ended at ard 5pm

Videographer (mid 30s) carrying HVX. - $350 with basic edit.
Photographer (mid 30s)....carrying 2 Nikon DSLR... with a couple of lens - $250 ...return in CD


I have seen the photos and they are not of that high standard and definitely not so low standard until $250. I would rate him at about $500.
Video yet to see.

So how would u rate this guys?


....... ooops forget to add in.
Have you ever seen a videographer who shoot a 3hr event at $50SGD for recording and $30 for basic edit and burn to DVD?

 

[DXNMedia]

Good reminder post.
I think its good for fellow pros in the industry to start questioning your own rates & prices from time to time.

Also, those who charge low could mean another thing....they need to cover overheads to sustain their staff's salary.
Got some work is better than no work at all.

I only believe in one theory that you guys have probably heard....
Out of Good, Fast & Cheap, you can only choose 2.

Good & Fast dun come cheap.
Fast and cheap don't expect good.
Good & Cheap, it won't be fast.

Your value and your rates are usually determined by how confident/experienced/skilled you are, how much you think your time is worth, probably the type of equipment you use, and the type of clientele you have.

Some people have the mindset that if they earn $400 per day, 10 day's of work would already equate to 1 month's salary, so they're happy with what they're getting.
Some people think that an extra $300 over the weekend can help offset some of their daily expenses, since they already have their gears.
Some don't even think about ROI of their equipment because they treat it like a hobby. You buy for fun/work, and you sell it off when you're done with playing.

Sadly, some clients who are also middlemen are out to exploit people. They charge their real clients a lot of money, and look for cheap interns or hobbyist to work for them at a fraction of what they're getting. That's business, and I think for those who already have been in the industry for over 10 years, if you still can't realise these points, then it's about time to re-think about your work future.

When I was firm on my rates during 'bad' times, I did lost some clients...some of them never came back until they needed more niche services.... but then looking back, I also gained a lot of benefits.
I gained more valuable clients... clients who need & value your services & skills.
I gained more time for other developments.
I took up lesser jobs, but better paying ones with minimal loss of income.
Its almost like a gamble...an exact business venture....no pain, no gain like they say....putting your time vs. money at stake.
If you take up 10x $300 jobs, you earn $3k, but if you can take up 6x $500 jobs, you also earn $3k, but you gained 4 extra days to take up other jobs.

2 cents worth....

 

[Ayon75]

Hi All,

I have been doing weddings (especially Malay wedding) for years. All I can say about these people who charge low is because they are doing video is just for the sake of doing, but not understanding the importance and the fundamentals (of video shoot and edit). To them, as long as you own a video camera and an editing software, you are ready to make a video out of it. Creativity is always off for these people and they themselves not able to tell what the video they have made by them.

As for me who had been doing camera works full-time for some broadcast companies, I have yet to bring down my price as I know how much expertise needed to produce a good quality video (no matter even if it is just wedding video). To me, I would rather let the people judge my work and willing to pay the price rather than I bring my price down just to compete with the rest of the people. It is just so important and not cheap to pour your creativity/skills out when producing a video.

So you people out there....if you find that your creativity and your skills are valuable, you should instead NOT charging low. It is up to you guys to value yourself and your work. As for me...I find my my experience, skills and creativity is just too valuable to be charging low.

As for couples out there searching for wedding videographers, you may find lots of cheap ones. But also you should be checking the pricy ones as well. Make the difference and at the end of the day, it is all up to you how you like to cherish the moments of your wedding. You may get the cheap and so so...but by paying bit more, you may be enjoying your wedding video for the rest of your marriage life.


Neezam

 

[BESTFOTO]

actually there is no pricing in RATES to do video or fotos..u may charge $50 $100 $2000 $5000.....those who do cheap cheap have NO JOBS and surely their work is ****...i now mantain my standard as have good expensive gears and am doing it for passion looking for the right QUALITy customer.....so no more comproming..unles one is POOR.......and i wil not be poor if i dun get the job as i work SMART now.....rajsingh MALAYSIA 012-5887719

 

[Jemhadar]

2 weeks ago I rejected a prospect who wanted me to do a half-day shoot, edit with music, titles and lower-thirds for $600/=.

 

[Bamboopictures]

I only believe in one theory that you guys have probably heard....
Out of Good, Fast & Cheap, you can only choose 2.

Good & Fast dun come cheap.
Fast and cheap don't expect good.
Good & Cheap, it won't be fast.

Can't agree with you more, Dixon bro! I guess different combinations apply to different market segments.
Good and Fast : infrequent, time-sensitive content. (eg Live or delay webinars) Launch videos, IPO videos.
Fast and cheap: short, frequent internal corporate comms podcasts, live-streaming of management address.
Good and Cheap: budget weddings, event recording.

But I think the videographers have to realise that it will be a buyer's market as more people get into this line. Also video is increasingly shared online
where production value is generally low thanks to homemade youtube video. Clients may opt for high frequency of live streaming / webcasts and vlogs and are less concerned with production value. Also the nature of live streaming artifacts work against moving shots and transition effects, so simpler, locked-down shots and static graphics could be preferred over camera movements. This works to the advantage of newbies who may be strong on ideas but short on equipment. Content will always be king, and those who innovate and have good storytelling skills will do better than those who compete on price alone.

 

[tengo]

It's about supply vs demand...

In my own observation, two things are happening in recent years and becoming worse:

1) Gears getting cheaper
Just for illustration sake, what needed to be shot with a $20,000 camera can now be shot with a HDSLR at $3000. What needed to be edited with at least a $10,000 Mac Pro can now be done with a $2K++ Macbook Pro. The barrier to entry is getting much lower.

2) More people coming into industry
During my time, there is only Ngee Ann Poly offering Diploma in Film, Sound and Video. Degree wise, only NTU offers something close as in Communication studies. Now, every polytechnic, La Salle, NAFA and several private schools are offering diplomas in media... We are churning out a huge supply of trained workers (albeit little experience). Again, it's a supply vs demand... students nowadays do not want to study IT or engineering... they like softer subjects like business or media.

As such, the market is overflow with competition and rates are being pushed lower.

An additional observation is that the top pros will survive... because they are the best. Another group is those who can market and adapt themselves well. The rest are all squeezed by the competition, with increasing no. of people fighting for a limited pool of jobs.

Another thing is that broadcast markets are cutting their budgets due to various reasons including lesser advertising dollars available. New media such as YouTube and facebook is the trend and advertising dollars are diluted with so many mediums available.

I can only shake my head regarding all these but then again, more people get to try to live their dreams, even though it's for a while.

Good luck to all.

 

[JasonB]

Still Photo same problem. Now you can see lotsa threads in services section wanting to hire at extreme low rates or even ask for free. Worst thing is so many eager people response like hungry-you-know-what. Their opening line is always 'I can provide cheaper I can do budget and cheap and good' undercut till nothing left. Then go around proclaiming they are now professionals. Get exploited and still feel proud.

That's why market go down and I don't foresee it improving, instead it will only go down and down deeper the more art schools producing more media students the worst it gets. Many of these students may end up having no prospects in the industry.

Irony? Yes, sadly.

Art schools may taught the technical or creative skills and knowledge, but failed to taught the business skills on how to survive as creative field professional.

 

[Bamboopictures]

I think we have look at economic reality on the ground. Video/photo business is just another business, like F&B, hair salon, renovation etc. Some of these business have much higher overheads and charge even lesser for their time and effort. Yet people still go into these business in the hope of building a fortune or making a livelihood. The video business already has it good because the cost is falling and the profit is not as thin as other industry. Perhaps with faster technology, post production can become easier and more streamlined. More trained students also mean it is cheaper to hire skilled, productive labour.

 

[Confaderal]

For me, I think 'low' should be maintained somewhere. The clients hiring videographers shouldn't be throwing a random number and freelancers shouldn't readily accept it. That would imply to them that "we charge video prices according to what we feel is nice".They would even ask to lower some more since our price is "anyhow". Instead of that, I feel we should quantify the rates of rental for our stuff(even if it's not rented), that way it is fair. Clients want cheap and good and we have to bend our backs, but not like this

 

[sibeiblur]

IBISWorld identifies 10 key industries that will decline, even after the economy revives
Video Postproduction Services is the Top 10 dying industries in US.
43.2 percent of postproduction companies have closed since 2000.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/...87.html#s259829&title=10_Video_Postproduction

 

[sjackal]

Sad

The photo guys are complaining and feeling sad over the same problem. See these threads:

Instant Photo Printing GONE TO THE DOGS !!!

How much do we worth? Us as photographers

Too Desperate??

$2.50 for 6 photos plus must do data entry and must be class 3 driver

Creative visual people need to take care of each other, themselves and their rice bowls! Don't use it to scoop sand! Because if one starts to scoop sand, the next request will be to scoop shiit.

Even if rice bowl break, also must break cleanly with dignity.

Tomorrow will be a better day!

 

[OldFlower]

I have been doing video for about 10 years and then took a break for 2 years and just recently returned to the market.

I am very VERY shocked by the current market rate that some videographers are offering. WHY undercut until so low and i cant understand how you
are going to recover your equipment costs not forgetting your labour.

Equipments are getting more expensive and bills are going up...but videographers are charging in the reverse direction.

Sigh... its so sad!

Hi Blade777,

I posted the following in 2008, and it drew flak from people in here citing Free Market and all that.
But really, our society and market has yet to come of maturity where Respect of Professions in the Arts isn't yet realized and or developed.

16th November 2008 #489
OldFlower
OldFlower is online now Member

Join Date
Mar 2008

Default Re: Has ClubSNAP become a sourcing spot for cheap photographers. Are we being taken a

Ah, so this question is finally asked...

I say the damage to this profession Freelance or Full Time, are those eager beaver teenies who advertise to offer FREE photography service, JUST BECAUSE they wanna learn.
This pretty much screws the market up real tight.

Undercutting prices/fees is bad enough, offering FREE services is the worst.

 

[OldFlower]

Suppose if this market is of interest to the government like in Property, THEN, you will see some CONTROL to curb Prices Wars, Under-cutting, and such.
Unfortunately, the creative industry - is of little or no interest to them. Which is both good and bad

 

[DXNMedia]

again, i'd like to draw examples to the automotive industry, which will make many people realise this easier.

There are many different markets and different consumer needs.
Cheap China Chery have their own market demands, and BMW/Merc have their own customers.
You can't expect BMW to come tell Chery that they're spoiling the market by introducing cheap low-end cars.

Then taking another analogy, Toyotas who are in the middle range market, decided that they also want to have a fair share of the higher end market, so they come up with Lexus....then realised that in order to compete in that category, their cars won't come cheap too...

But for Cherys to try to compete in that higher end market, comes the doubt of many others because they've already branded themselves at the lower end market.

Kia in another way, have slowly moved up the ladder...from low-mid end range, they're slowly trying to go into the middle-high range, and they've proven themselves that they're capable to maintain their standards.

Consumers on the other hand, are very much driven by what they need and what they can afford. If someone have been used to driving BMWs, they'd definitely want to drive a BMW or better vehicle next time, but if circumstances prevent them from being able to drive a BMW, they'd probably have to downgrade to a Toyota, or if worse, a Kia.
Those who've never driven a BMW before, may not understand why they have to pay so much for a BMW when a regular Kia can take them to point A-B.

It is indeed a free market, sad to say, and for me who is in the industry, I really don't wish to see control to curb price wars.
Let it be a free market, and let you guys who are in the industry to decide how you wish the industry to head towards....
Like I always tell fellow industry people, stop complaining about the industry because YOU GUYS MAKE UP THE INDUSTRY!

Two cents.

 

[OldFlower]

I beg to differ; but I feel that Art (Filming & Video) is not a product like cars - but in Medicine & Healthcare - of course, one who has lower income shall & will have to settle for a lesser capable Doctor and or Hospital - as there is NO art involved in Medicine which is purely pharmacological scientific based & hence hinges solely on Affordability.
Would be interesting to know if Hollywood is interested in Cheap Actors/Actresses or Cinematographers/Directors?