Which Leica M ? (buy in Japan or Singapore)

[batmat]

Hello everyone,

I am brand new here, after reading the forum I decided to register because it seems that there are some very interesting threads going on. I am a 26 years old French man living in Australia at the moment, and planing to go in Japan & Singapore in March, very exited about that! I will only be staying 4 days in Singapore and around 7 in Japan. I mainly use analog gears (I actually don't own any digital myself, but use time by time the 550D of my girlfriend, more for souvenirs shots than anything else). Anyway, I've been using a Yashica Mg-1, Yashica 35-ME, Lomo Lc-A, Polaroid "forgot the model", Olympus mju II and III, and mainly a Canon A-1 that I really like. I enjoy taking photos of people but am still a bit shy to get too close, I like walking around with my camera looking for interesting things to my eyes... Oh, I do black and white and try develop them myself, quite challenging sometimes

After this rather long introduction, here are my questions :
- I wanted to buy a RF Leica for few years now, and I think the day has come, I have read a lot about them but can not really figure out the one that will best suit my needs. At the moment I am thinking of a M4 or M6. I don't really mind having flash sync because I almost never use flash, but a correct light-meter might be useful.
- I am also not sure about the magnification...I think this has to be chosen depending of the lens, I think I will look at 35mm or 50mm lens, no more for now. (but who knows in the future ?)
- Speaking about lenses, which one should I look at ? I am thinking 35mm, as I have a 28mm and 50mm on my A-1 and often switch between the two.
- Japan and Singapore are to my eyes two really good places to buy a camera, but is there really good deal out there ? Any infos/comment/ideas/places would be very much appreciated !

And feel free to give me any advices of things to see/do in theses two countries, I just can't wait !

- sorry if I did not post at the right place - sorry for any english mistakes - I also do not speak Japanese so will be a challenge to shop there - ohhhh and budget is around 2000$AU (2500$SGD) for both lens and body, less would be cool, bit more would be possible -

Thanks a lot for all your answers !
Cheers,
Mat

 

[Canto]

u can try map camera in shinjuku,(currently i'm in tokyo), i jus went there yesterday noon. almost every model of the leica body that are displayed is mint condition. they have at least 7-10pcs (pre-own) of every m body to choose from. I jus saw 10 pcs of mp bp in display lying side by side...price between 250000yen to 350000yen.

 

[batmat]

Thanks for your answer, sounds like Japan has lot of collecting items and I am not really looking for something brand new, I will use my Leica as my primary camera so it will get more or less damaged (I am usually careful with my stuff specially if its a Leica !). So yeah, I was more expecting a kind of small second hand shops in the backstreets of Tokyo, but well that might not actually exist ! Is 2000$AU a reasonable price for body + lens ? Just went to the shop here in Australia (adelaide), and found a second hand M6 + 50mm at 3400$ (perfect condition), but that's kind of out of my budget....

 

[third3rdwheel]

I am from Singapore and suggest you buy in JAPAN

Hello everyone,

I am brand new here, after reading the forum I decided to register because it seems that there are some very interesting threads going on. I am a 26 years old French man living in Australia at the moment, and planing to go in Japan & Singapore in March, very exited about that! I will only be staying 4 days in Singapore and around 7 in Japan. I mainly use analog gears (I actually don't own any digital myself, but use time by time the 550D of my girlfriend, more for souvenirs shots than anything else). Anyway, I've been using a Yashica Mg-1, Yashica 35-ME, Lomo Lc-A, Polaroid "forgot the model", Olympus mju II and III, and mainly a Canon A-1 that I really like. I enjoy taking photos of people but am still a bit shy to get too close, I like walking around with my camera looking for interesting things to my eyes... Oh, I do black and white and try develop them myself, quite challenging sometimes

After this rather long introduction, here are my questions :
- I wanted to buy a RF Leica for few years now, and I think the day has come, I have read a lot about them but can not really figure out the one that will best suit my needs. At the moment I am thinking of a M4 or M6. I don't really mind having flash sync because I almost never use flash, but a correct light-meter might be useful.
- I am also not sure about the magnification...I think this has to be chosen depending of the lens, I think I will look at 35mm or 50mm lens, no more for now. (but who knows in the future ?)
- Speaking about lenses, which one should I look at ? I am thinking 35mm, as I have a 28mm and 50mm on my A-1 and often switch between the two.
- Japan and Singapore are to my eyes two really good places to buy a camera, but is there really good deal out there ? Any infos/comment/ideas/places would be very much appreciated !

And feel free to give me any advices of things to see/do in theses two countries, I just can't wait !

- sorry if I did not post at the right place - sorry for any english mistakes - I also do not speak Japanese so will be a challenge to shop there - ohhhh and budget is around 2000$AU (2500$SGD) for both lens and body, less would be cool, bit more would be possible -

Thanks a lot for all your answers !
Cheers,
Mat

 

[ckuang]

Personally, if you're in Singapore, I would get myself down to Chiif's shop, http://www.chiifcameras.com, while he doesn't sell Leicas per se, Chiif is very very knowledgeable about rangefinders and would be best able to advise you on current market prices your setup as well as advising you on the best rangefinder. You'll also get a chance to try out some of the really great M mount lenses in his shop.

 

[raytoei]

Hi BatMat,

happy chinese new year to you!

I can't comment on buying in SG or JP, i do understand that HK has some of the most competitive pricing for cameras.

But I can give you some of my observations on the models:

* the M4 is a good choice, same for the m6. M4 does not have hot shoe why the m6 has. The m6 has a meter which is convenient but like all things that requires a battery, may be prone to inaccuracies and/or failing electronics which isn't easy to repair. The M6 has a TTL version which is good if you are into filters and B&W. The cost of the TTL goes up a fair bit.

* In terms of framelines, the M3 has the best overall frameline for 50mm lens. The frameline mag is like 0.92x. This comes at the expense for wides which the M3 cannot display. But this doesn't mean the 28mm or 35mm can't be used on the m3, it just means you'd need an external view finder attached to the shoe to compose the image, while the m3 viewfinder is used for accuracy. When the M3 first came out, it had only 50, 90 and 135mm. which was great for war photography, see this http://retro.ms11.net/m3vietnam.jpg

With the m2 and subsequent M, the 35mm and even the 28mm framelines were introduced. I had a m4 with m6 framelines. It is possible to modify the M4 to have 6 framelines (28,35,50,75,90 and 135). Of course, the downside is possible clutter. As a young man with good eyes, I would suggest you try out the smaller frame M4 / M6.

* Available light is great for individual shots BUT it is very tough to take group shots where there is a deeper DOF. eg. f1.5, at 1/15 seconds and 800iso. Too much out of focus shots. While Flash is generally avoided by many RFF users. I think having a flash on a rangefinder (any) is perfectly alright. eg. f8 covers a deep DOF. If you think you are going to use a fair bit of indoor shots like wedding photography, then I would suggest you lean towards a newer M4-p or M6 which has a hot-shoe. If not you'd need a cube with an extension cable to the M4 flash-hole while the cube is attached to a flash. Not really an issue in any case.

* In terms of lens, and this is a generalisation, 50mm is more popular than 35mm or 28mm. 35mm is more popular than 90 or 135mm. I personally do not like 35mm prefering to go the 50/90/135 route. If possible, spend on the best glass you can afford and buy 1 first and slowly build up the kit.

Note that Russian lens in Leica Thread Mount (LTM) works on the M with an adapter. The most sought after Russian lens are: Jupiter-8, Jupiter-3, Industar 61 L/D. These are decent lens but many have backfocus issues due to the fact that Leica and Russian Cameras are every so slightly different.

Leica Screw mount lens are nice too but many have flare due to the lack of coating (eg. Summar lens) or are soft due to scratches. But many have the old leica look that is sought after. Afterall, how often these days do you see flare on the photos ? Funny thing is that Flare is making a come back, eg. the movie Informant starring Matt Damon.

A notable mention are the Canon LTM lens, which have recently become popular. The 35/2 is known as the Japanese Summicron. The 50/1.8 is also considered the best 1.8 ever.

Here's a obligatory shot using the Summarit 50/1.5 LTM, this is a '50s lens.
Captured this past week at Bugis.

Hope this helps.

raytoei

 

[calebk]

Hi BatMat,

happy chinese new year to you!

I can't comment on buying in SG or JP, i do understand that HK has some of the most competitive pricing for cameras.

But I can give you some of my observations on the models:

* the M4 is a good choice, same for the m6. M4 does not have hot shoe why the m6 has. The m6 has a meter which is convenient but like all things that requires a battery, may be prone to inaccuracies and/or failing electronics which isn't easy to repair. The M6 has a TTL version which is good if you are into filters and B&W. The cost of the TTL goes up a fair bit...

Ray, iirc, the M6 has a built in reflected light meter either way. The only difference between the M6 classic and the M6 TTL is the TTL model has TTL flash metering, and of course, the shutter speed dial is reversed.

 

[derekj]

Thanks for your answer, sounds like Japan has lot of collecting items and I am not really looking for something brand new, I will use my Leica as my primary camera so it will get more or less damaged (I am usually careful with my stuff specially if its a Leica !). So yeah, I was more expecting a kind of small second hand shops in the backstreets of Tokyo, but well that might not actually exist ! Is 2000$AU a reasonable price for body + lens ? Just went to the shop here in Australia (adelaide), and found a second hand M6 + 50mm at 3400$ (perfect condition), but that's kind of out of my budget....

hey. im also from australia and i just returned from a trip in japan.

1. i suggest that you go to the travel section of this forum, theres a thread there with info about a lot of the camera shops around tokyo.

2. im not sure what exchange rate you get in SA but i found the exchange rate in japan for AUD to be really low. ~72 while market price is about 80-82. a way around it is using your credit card. i bought a new lens at the leica boutique in ginza and my credit card (commbank) gave me the market rate plus a fee so the overall rate worked out to 79. big difference when you are talking about 6k AUD.

 

[Recoil3d]

You can visit this place http://www.lemonsha.com/english/ ,highly reccomended :thumbsup:

Quite easy to locate too

 

[adamadam]

hey. im also from australia and i just returned from a trip in japan.

1. i suggest that you go to the travel section of this forum, theres a thread there with info about a lot of the camera shops around tokyo.

2. im not sure what exchange rate you get in SA but i found the exchange rate in japan for AUD to be really low. ~72 while market price is about 80-82. a way around it is using your credit card. i bought a new lens at the leica boutique in ginza and my credit card (commbank) gave me the market rate plus a fee so the overall rate worked out to 79. big difference when you are talking about 6k AUD.

I got back from Japan last month - changed my cash before leaving ~79, and using CC ~82
Excited to see so much Leica but I think the prices from USA were better, ie. Japan prices weren't special.

 

[batmat]

Thanks guys !
I will definitely try to drop by Chiif's shop, might fall for a Bessa as well so this is kind of dangerous for my pocket money but I love the look of those !
Thanks for all the infos raytoei, I really don't mind not having the TTL flash metering, for the inverted shutter speed dial, I guess you just need to get used to it, so I will more likely go for a M6 over a M6 TTL. But now, I am not so sure anymore of the 35mm, standard 50mm might be better, (cheaper?), and will make me come closer to my subject ! So I am still thinking about this one.
Thanks derekj for the credit card info, I was actually planing to pay by visa, so good to hear that this is the best solution.
I've put the lemonsha address in my to-do list, thanks recoil3d, and thanks everyone for the inputs, I am reading around the forum a lot, very instructive !

 

[batmat]

Hi, sorry I am back with some questions ...
- Firstly, on a Leica M6, is it easy to push my film, I like using 400 ISO film and shot at 800 or 1600 (even 3200, this get a bit dirty...)
- I am planing of buying lots of film in Japan/singapore, I have been using fomapan 400, rollei 100, tri-x 400, and Hp5... I think I will get more tri-x 400, is there any local film or anything cheap that you guys can recommend ?
- I have been speaking of an RF camera, but I have also been thinking of others camera...Hasselblad 500c/m or Yashica 124G for example to get myself in medium format, would that be easy to find ?
- Also looking for a canon FD 85mm...

After that, I will be good for a while, thanks again for your advice

 

[NazgulKing]

Hi, sorry I am back with some questions ...
- Firstly, on a Leica M6, is it easy to push my film, I like using 400 ISO film and shot at 800 or 1600 (even 3200, this get a bit dirty...)

Pushing film really is a matter of metering at the said ISO and exposing at that said ISO/ You have to compensate during film development, and increase the development time typically proportional to how long you push.

- I am planing of buying lots of film in Japan/singapore, I have been using fomapan 400, rollei 100, tri-x 400, and Hp5... I think I will get more tri-x 400, is there any local film or anything cheap that you guys can recommend ?

I would say since this is your first time, try as many brands as possible to get a feel. Tri-X, HP5, Delta 400, Neopan 400 ... They have their distinctive character.

- I have been speaking of an RF camera, but I have also been thinking of others camera...Hasselblad 500c/m or Yashica 124G for example to get myself in medium format, would that be easy to find ?

You probably could if you try hard enough...

 

[jonmanjiro]

You can visit this place http://www.lemonsha.com/english/ ,highly reccomended :thumbsup:

Quite easy to locate too

Lemonsha is great, but you have to keep in mind that once you walk out the door with your purchase, that's it. They will not accept returns under any circumstances. If you make it to the elevator to go downstairs and discover a problem with your newly purchased MP that you didn't see 5 minutes earlier when checking it over - tough luck.

My favourite three stores in Tokyo are these three because they all offer the right to return a defective item along with a warranty period, though I realise that the warranty isn't really useful for tourists

Fujiya Camera
http://www.fujiya-camera.co.jp/

MAP Camera
http://www.mapcamera.com/

and Sanpou Camera
http://www.sanpou.ne.jp/

 

[aomoon]

A Guide to New and Used Camera Shops in Tokyo (not maintained anymore)

http://www.asbcreative.com/tokyo_used_cameras.html

 

[lokewl]

Lemonsha is great, but you have to keep in mind that once you walk out the door with your purchase, that's it. They will not accept returns under any circumstances. If you make it to the elevator to go downstairs and discover a problem with your newly purchased MP that you didn't see 5 minutes earlier when checking it over - tough luck.

My favourite three stores in Tokyo are these three because they all offer the right to return a defective item along with a warranty period, though I realise that the warranty isn't really useful for tourists

Fujiya Camera
http://www.fujiya-camera.co.jp/

MAP Camera
http://www.mapcamera.com/

and Sanpou Camera
http://www.sanpou.ne.jp/

Jon, since you are living in Japan, any shops to recommend for buying Leica camera in the Osaka (Kansai region)?

 

[jonmanjiro]

Jon, since you are living in Japan, any shops to recommend for buying Leica camera in the Osaka (Kansai region)?

I know there are some good ones but sorry I have no experience at all with shops in Kansai.

 

[batmat]

Sorry for late answer, thanks for all the links, I will have to write all of that down and make myself a nice tour of japanese camera shop, how exiting !