Questions....

[divadyhl]

Hi there,

I'm quite new here and have got a few questions to ask.
Tried searching the forums but couldn't quite find the answers to the questions in my mind.
Hope you guys can help me out. Thanks!

Currently using a D200 and Tokina f2.6-2.8, 28-70mm, and SB800.
All bought 2nd hand as I managed to get some good deals in this forum.
Thanks guys!

I'm shooting more as a hobby, while occasionally helping out with some church functions.
I use flash quite extensively since most of the functions are indoors.

Here're some of my queries,

1) At iso above 800, I find that the colours produced by the camera become darker and duller, an effect which I don't like. Is there any way to overcome this besides PP?

2) Noise above iso 640 becomes quite unbearable especially in the shadows. NR is set to normal as I do not wish to lose too much detail by putting it to high. How do you guys overcome this problem besides not shooting at high iso? PP? Is PP via a noise reduction software the only solution? I've tried as high as 1600 for one event before. Ambient light was nicely captured but noise was really unsightly to me.

3) If I shoot lower than iso 400, I find that I get the colours that I want at the expense of ambient lighting. I could use shadow/highlight or d-lighting to improve these areas but the mood of the picture is somewhat different. How can I resolve this?

From the data gathered from my shots, I shoot mostly at a shutter of about 1/40 - 1/60, sometimes even up to 1/100 as the kids really move fast :bsmilie: when they're having fun at parties. Even at 1/100 I find that it is a little slow sometimes. Aperture is typically in the range of f4 - 5 for some DOF. I try to keep iso at around 400 -640. Flash exposure compensation is done as and when necessary.

Can you guys advise?

I would really like to minimize PP time and get my shots properly done straight out of the camera. The above are some of the things that I find difficulty in overcoming.

Hope to hear from you.


Cheers!
HY

 

[ihub88]

go canon for low noise?

or get a D80?

 

[JamesW]

go canon for low noise?

or get a D80?

Oh please...

 

[lsisaxon]

Hi there,
1) At iso above 800, I find that the colours produced by the camera become darker and duller, an effect which I don't like. Is there any way to overcome this besides PP?
HY

If you've shot ISO800 film before, you would not complain. ;p

Generally, you can try increasing the contrast and saturation settings on the D200 but at the expense of noise. It realy depends on what you're trying to shoot. Find a compromised setting. Use a wider angle and go closer to shoot. The reduced magnification at wider angle would allow you to use a slower shutter speed. Open up your aperture to the maximum (smallest f-number) this will allow you maximize the available lighting.

 

[JamesW]

Try "Optimize Image" -> More Vivid.

For noise issues PP is the way to go. Imagenomic is the way to go. Or if your objects aren't moving alot, get a monopod.

Last but not least, are you shooting jpeg or raw?

 

[divadyhl]

lsisaxon
JamesW

Thanks for your help and suggestions guys.
Film at iso 800 is really :bigeyes:
Just that I like my images nice and clean.

Sometimes, a wider aperture is not really an option for me as I need the DOF to make sure all the faces are visibly clear and distinct. Tried using 2.8 before, but I'd have to compensate by standing further to get the DOF I needed. When it comes to cramped places, I can only do so by decreasing the aperture.

I typically shoot in raw.

Also, one thing I don't like about PP to remove noise is that it some how makes my image softer. Think my PP skills are lacking. :embrass:
Perhaps you guys can teach me how to remove noise more effectively without losing too much detail and sharpness?

I'm currently using more vivid so as to get the nice contrasty colours that I like.
Makes the kids look more colourful too :bsmilie:
What I'm trying to say is that even at this setting, my colours seem to become darker and less vivid when I use iso of 800 and above.
Think it could be an issue of reduced dynamic range at higher iso?

Read from some reviews that colours have a tendency to do so when shooting at higher iso.

 

[lsisaxon]

Sometimes, a wider aperture is not really an option for me as I need the DOF to make sure all the faces are visibly clear and distinct. Tried using 2.8 before, but I'd have to compensate by standing further to get the DOF I needed. When it comes to cramped places, I can only do so by decreasing the aperture.

Sometimes it's not that bad if you stick with a shorter focal length. If you're not going to blow the prints up huge, some blur is still tolerable.

People now tend to make the mistake of viewing the images at 100% on the screen then complain that the equipment is not good.. forgetting that the lenses now are much sharper than before but just that there is now the capability to view the image at a much much higher magnification with just a click of a button. Previously you would need an enlarger or a slide projector to do that.. Even then with a slide projector, you don't scrutinize the blown up images up close like you would on a monitor. At 100%, the size of a 10mp image is equivalent to a 38"x26" print!

If this image is printed on 4R, I think it's going to be quite sharp. ;p

Usually I shoot at the lowest ISO, ie 200 for D70s and 100 for D200/D2X and only up the ISO when there is a need to. I shoot JPGs and I let the camera handle the processing. With RAW, you'll need to handle the noise yourself. I only shoot RAW when I need to do a lot of editing. Most of the time it's sufficient.

Here's a 12mp 100% crop at ISO800 from a D2X JPG. The noise isn't really that bad and the detail is there. I believe D200 performs slightly better. You can try shooting JPG, you'll save yourself a lot of headaches processing the NEF files. I think they are good enough... Even for 8R prints, they are already an overkill.

 

[divadyhl]

Yeah. I also like to shoot at the lowest iso of 100 for the d200.
The pictures are really nice and clean
Currently using the Sreala2 tone curve and find that it suits my tastes just fine
Details and sharpness are there and A4 prints are no problem at all.

You're quite right in saying that in this digital age, a lot of us tend to become pixel-peepers and we have the tendency to compare based on 100% crops instead of actual print outs.

My comments are based on A4 sized prints that I make because sometimes they get posted on bulletin boards for publicity purposes or for showing to parents.

At ISO800, with no PP, the noise in shadow areas is starting to be an eyesore to me on an A4 print. Noise in other areas seem better managed. The picture is close to the verge of being acceptable to me. But on a 4R print, it's still pretty ok.

At ISO1600 or ISO3200, the picture literally starts "cracking up"

One comment though on the crop that you posted at ISO800 in jpg file format,
It looks really much cleaner than mine at ISO800!!:heart: I kid you not!!
There's no PP done on it as well right?

Does shooting in jpg really make that much of difference with regards to the way noise is managed? :think:

I've got to try this when I get back.

Thanks my friend!
Looks like I might just have to live with the noise and find ways to overcome it, and accept a certain amount of pp in my routine.

 

[zac08]

Do note that the noise is more apparent when the picture is under-exposed...

Try it out....

 

[lsisaxon]

Yeah. I also like to shoot at the lowest iso of 100 for the d200.
The pictures are really nice and clean
Currently using the Sreala2 tone curve and find that it suits my tastes just fine
Details and sharpness are there and A4 prints are no problem at all.

You're quite right in saying that in this digital age, a lot of us tend to become pixel-peepers and we have the tendency to compare based on 100% crops instead of actual print outs.

My comments are based on A4 sized prints that I make because sometimes they get posted on bulletin boards for publicity purposes or for showing to parents.

At ISO800, with no PP, the noise in shadow areas is starting to be an eyesore to me on an A4 print. Noise in other areas seem better managed. The picture is close to the verge of being acceptable to me. But on a 4R print, it's still pretty ok.

At ISO1600 or ISO3200, the picture literally starts "cracking up"

One comment though on the crop that you posted at ISO800 in jpg file format,
It looks really much cleaner than mine at ISO800!!:heart: I kid you not!!
There's no PP done on it as well right?

Does shooting in jpg really make that much of difference with regards to the way noise is managed? :think:

I've got to try this when I get back.

Thanks my friend!
Looks like I might just have to live with the noise and find ways to overcome it, and accept a certain amount of pp in my routine.

I use sRealav2 on D70s. I don't find the need to use that curve on the D200 because the contrast is nice enough. On D70s, the shadows will be quite noisy at ISO800 and it's quite unuseable. But I find that it's acceptable on D200.

There was once I tried RAW and the noise was really terrible if you don't manage it properly. I shoot JPG most of the time because I don't like to PP unless there's a need to. Since you print A4 most of the time, I think you might benefit from just shooting JPG, set it to Fine with quality priority. I think they are very useable if you don't need to mess with exposure later. What I feel is that if you get it right during shooting, I don't see a big need to mess with RAW PP. It saves a lot of time.

The image is straight out of the camera, no PP, just cropped. I don't have a similar image from D200 but if I remember correctly, the noise at ISO800 for D200 is less obvious than D2X.