Mpeg or AVI format easier to edit?

[ianpaice]

Considering either buying a HDD camcorder or Mini DV camcorder.

Which one is easier to edit?

 

[eel]

Important question to ask. The Mpeg format, being highly compressed, requires the computer to work 'harder' during editing especially if you are looking to do frame accurate edits. So if you don't have a powerful enough machine, you could find editing to be laggy - more so when doing your final output. Generally AVI in the dv format, is alot easier to work with.

 

[jaegersing]

Important question to ask. The Mpeg format, being highly compressed, requires the computer to work 'harder' during editing especially if you are looking to do frame accurate edits. So if you don't have a powerful enough machine, you could find editing to be laggy - more so when doing your final output. Generally AVI in the dv format, is alot easier to work with.

Depends on the codec used. AVI can also include DIVX and MP4 which are not so easy to edit. It's important to check the exact format, because AVI by itself doesn't tell you much.

 

[eel]

Depends on the codec used. AVI can also include DIVX and MP4 which are not so easy to edit. It's important to check the exact format, because AVI by itself doesn't tell you much.

Yes that's right. AVI is a wrapper so maybe the correct terminology is "AVI in the dv format using a dv codec"?

 

[huaiwei]

Considering either buying a HDD camcorder or Mini DV camcorder.

Which one is easier to edit?

I would consider avi superior to mpeg if you are talking about ease of editing. Mpeg is typically the format you would choose when encoding the final video, and is less suitable as a source video for editing work. The mpeg-2 compression often used by these recorders is much more compressed than DV codec, which would mean you are starting of with lower-quality footage. I typically capture my DV Tape footage to DV codec, than compress them to mpeg2 if I want to convert them to DVD video. Having to start off with mpeg2 means I wont have much room for creative editing unless all I want to do is to trim the footage and direct copy the remaining video without re-encoding it, for example.

 

[ianpaice]

The thing that hold me back with DV camcorder if the amount of time to transfer to computer for either editing or simply ripping to DVD disc.

I only need to do simple editing like putting in Menu, words, transition effects in between frames, is it simple to do that with mpeg editing?

I see more camcorder going towards HDD. A salesman told me DV tapes are obsolete! I am confused!

I would consider avi superior to mpeg if you are talking about ease of editing. Mpeg is typically the format you would choose when encoding the final video, and is less suitable as a source video for editing work. The mpeg-2 compression often used by these recorders is much more compressed than DV codec, which would mean you are starting of with lower-quality footage. I typically capture my DV Tape footage to DV codec, than compress them to mpeg2 if I want to convert them to DVD video. Having to start off with mpeg2 means I wont have much room for creative editing unless all I want to do is to trim the footage and direct copy the remaining video without re-encoding it, for example.

 

[chanxj]

I personally don't see dv tapes going away any time soon. no1, dv tapes are cheaper than hdd. Imagine bringing a stack of hdd on travel or the cost involved in buying multiple drives. Also, being compressed into MPEG means that the footage is not of the highest resolution possible. Its just like the small medium and large modes in DSLR, when you lose more detail, the more difficult your editing is going to be, and the end result may not be as good, although i admit for the panasonic p2, the use of hdd is better as it can then record in true hd with longer recording time then p2 cards.

 

[huaiwei]

The thing that hold me back with DV camcorder if the amount of time to transfer to computer for either editing or simply ripping to DVD disc.

I only need to do simple editing like putting in Menu, words, transition effects in between frames, is it simple to do that with mpeg editing?

I see more camcorder going towards HDD. A salesman told me DV tapes are obsolete! I am confused!

Nah. Inserting captions and transition effects will mean you need to re-encode, and that will usually mean a noticeable drop in picture quality because, as I said earlier, that mpeg2 is already quite highly compressed relative to DV codec. The mount of transfer time is just one issue to consider in the entire equation. Do be aware, that HDDs are much more likely to fail compared to DV tapes.

Also consider the fact that you may encounter difficulties when you need to film for longer periods, or when you do not have a habit of emptying your HDD often enough. A DV tape user simply brings plenty of cheap, lightweight, and compact DV tapes. A HDD Camcorder user will have to transfer that info to another medium, most likely a PC or laptop, before he can free up space to record more footage. Admittedly, devices which allow backups to DVDs are beginning to appear in the market thou, although they are still not pervasive.

It is understandable that salespeople will promote HDDs and DVD recorders as in-thing for the next generation. But I will simply not jump on that bangawon if both formats cannot even record at a quality which can match DV tapes, which to me is a major step backwards. I will probably consider these options only when HDDs Camcorders allow a choice in recording using different compression codecs depending on the situation (much like a TV capture card), and if removable HDDs become standard features!

 

[aureus]

HDD camcorders are the way for the future. Ten years ago, people were snubbing at digital cameras stating that film is way better for photo quality. That's true, even today for most consumer digital cams. But are consumers bothered? No average consumer will buy a film camera these days. Even the pros have went the digital way.

HDD and solid state media camcorders are here to stay. Perhaps the movie format will change. From Mpeg2, there is AVCHD now. Unless you are trying to film movies in broadcast quality, you will be well off with a HDD or a solid state camcorder.

The transfer of files is a breeze... just drag and drop. U want to review a clip, just browse through the clips which have nice thumbnails and click play... u want to delete a clip, just choose the offending thumbnail. U cannot imaginge urself rewinding a DV tape ever again.

"Rewind"??? That is so yesterday. It shd be next or previous these days...

So watch out for the HDD cams. Get one if u are in the market for a camcorder. If u oredi have a DV tape camcorder, wait will the AVCHD ones come out in full force then get one. I have both a DV tape and a HDD camcorder, I use the HDD one these days.

Cheers!

 

[eel]

I think the key phrase here is "for the future". AVCHD is so new that most Non-linear editing software do not have support for it yet. While the Mpeg 2 is good for all the things you describe, it is still PIA to do accurate editing and effects because of the way its compressed. If you don't intend to do any post-production work then its fine for the consumer who is a beginner. But down the line, if you decide you need more control over the workflow, then I don't think the technolody is mature enough to work as smoothly as the dv format for now.

 

[jaegersing]

I think the key phrase here is "for the future". AVCHD is so new that most Non-linear editing software do not have support for it yet. While the Mpeg 2 is good for all the things you describe, it is still PIA to do accurate editing and effects because of the way its compressed. If you don't intend to do any post-production work then its fine for the consumer who is a beginner. But down the line, if you decide you need more control over the workflow, then I don't think the technolody is mature enough to work as smoothly as the dv format for now.

You are so right! :thumbsup:

 

[huaiwei]

I think the key phrase here is "for the future". AVCHD is so new that most Non-linear editing software do not have support for it yet. While the Mpeg 2 is good for all the things you describe, it is still PIA to do accurate editing and effects because of the way its compressed. If you don't intend to do any post-production work then its fine for the consumer who is a beginner. But down the line, if you decide you need more control over the workflow, then I don't think the technolody is mature enough to work as smoothly as the dv format for now.

Thanks, thats exactly my thoughts! I fully agree that HDD will be the way for the future, but that until it can reach an acceptable quality level and at reasonable pricing before it can become palatable to the masses. If I may quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD, "AVCHD offers limited practical utility to the advanced operator". Just about anyone who are attempting to do video editing on the PC with their video files will easily fall into the category of "advanced operators", and experience the same frustration as true professionals probably would. So unlike DSLR, which is widely accepted by professionals and the masses, HDD still has a long way to go, particularly in convincing advanced users to make the switch.

 

[aureus]

It is true that AVCHD had got limited software for editing currently. But u can try Vegas 7. It is fast and easy to use. The update just came out for AVCHD support. But if u are a mac user, perhaps u need to bug apple to update iMovie for AVCHD support. I am not sure if the latest FCP variant can do AVCHD also. I've read that you require to convert the AVCDH to DV format before processing on a Mac. That is plain silly I guess. U will be better off waiting till Apple updates its software. But for PC users with Vegas 7, editing AVCHD is a breeze.

For non-HD harddisk cams, Mpeg2 in high quality is frequently more than sufficient for non-broadcast work. Most decent PC editing software can deal with it easily now.

Wikipedia can be written by anyone... Perhaps I can change the statement there? Y not give AVCHD a try, it really is an eye opener and the quality in best quality will satisfy you. Try it yourself to understand. Use Vegas 7 as this is one of the best AVCHD editing software currently.

 

[jaegersing]

But for PC users with Vegas 7, editing AVCHD is a breeze.

Not sure why you would say this. Editing AVCHD in Vegas 7(e) is POSSIBLE, but it's no fun at all. The playback frame rate is very low and is really jerky, and also the interface response slows down a lot. In my opinion, the only useful thing that you can do with AVCHD in Vegas is convert it to another format that is more editing-friendly. This is from experience. I couldn't edit a project at work using the AVCHD files because it was taking forever just to find edit points.

But of course, this is a better situation than Vegas 7 (d) which couldn't even open the AVCHD files, so I believe the situation will improve with time (and faster processors).

 

[tchoonyong]

Agreed. Besides avi(microsoft) or dv(Apple) format which are raws all those nonsense formats that come out of markets are more for final production. Even if you go to a post production suite they still used tapes even though it troublesome but they are not as lapse as doing editing on a compressed format which most video editing softwares do not accepts.
FYI: DVD and HDD Camcorder were produced for consumers who do not wish to do any editing but just want to show it directly to the audiences once it is recorded.