M8 ... worth buying to toy?
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nope. for that money, id rather get a 1 series. alternatively, get a M6 and spend the balance on some quality leica lenses. the thing about the leica film cameras is that they are timeless, so hold their value really well. but the M8, despite being a good camera, is still a digital cam. so the more new digital cams etc that come out, and the higher the pixel count and quality of sensor, themore this will impact its price.
Based on the past, most DSLR lost about 50% after about 2yrs+ ....
So I suppose we are seeing the M8 going for about $3,500 in yr 2009 ...:think:
alternatve
Senior Member
To me, it isn't. Why?
By going digital, the latest technology rules, not the quality of the product. No one really cares that your camera lasts for decades when after two years, it's obsolete. But by going the film way, you will be happily snapping away for decades since it's a different path from digital. Take for example a Leica III. People are still happily snapping away with it even though it's a design with it's roots in the 1930's! And take the comtemporary digital compact. After a year, another newer model comes up and the old one is cast aside. Also, you are using one of the top brands of the film camera industry, a Leica, which means a lot. In the digital arena, it's just another brand. The leaders are Nikon and Canon, not Leica.
If you must go digital, get a Epson R-D1. Notice that I'm not saying much about the other digital compacts, because I'm concentrating on the rangefinder side of cameras.
Of course, if you really must get one, go ahead. This is just my opinion.
Sam.
By going digital, the latest technology rules, not the quality of the product. No one really cares that your camera lasts for decades when after two years, it's obsolete. But by going the film way, you will be happily snapping away for decades since it's a different path from digital. Take for example a Leica III. People are still happily snapping away with it even though it's a design with it's roots in the 1930's! And take the comtemporary digital compact. After a year, another newer model comes up and the old one is cast aside. Also, you are using one of the top brands of the film camera industry, a Leica, which means a lot. In the digital arena, it's just another brand. The leaders are Nikon and Canon, not Leica.
If you must go digital, get a Epson R-D1. Notice that I'm not saying much about the other digital compacts, because I'm concentrating on the rangefinder side of cameras.
Of course, if you really must get one, go ahead. This is just my opinion.
Sam.
alternatve
Senior Member
I think if they made an exchangeable digital pack, upgradeable as the years go by, it will be much better.
alternatve
Senior Member
As I recall, Hassablad came up with a digital back SLR a few years ago. Film and digital combined I think. The price is right too. Sets you back a cool $30000!
I think if just look at it in terms of value, I think digital cameras dont hold their value well. An example is the Nikon D1x which is worth a fraction of its original price 2nd hand. The M8's 10 mpixels is going to be similar to the latest mid-range to low end DSLRs soon (e.g. Nikon D80, Olympus E-400), if you don't consider other IQ factors(no AA filter, Leica lenses etc).
If you look at it in terms of the professional price bracket, there are rumors that the new Canon 1-series will appear soon, rumored to include features like improved colour, dust remover on the sensor, smaller body, improved autofocus, improved resolution, together with new lenses).
I think what the M8 has going for it is that its the best RF digital on the market today, its fun using RFs (simple manual control), the resolution is already adequate for the kind of print sizes most of us will be printing at and the M8 re-produces the clarity and unique lens characteristics of leica lenses.
Hopefully Leica will make the sensors upgradeble, because its hardly likely that other portions of the M8 can be improved i.e. meter, autofocus like canon/nikon, so the only changes would be the sensor; and its unlikely that Leica will change the design of the M8 body.
If you look at it in terms of the professional price bracket, there are rumors that the new Canon 1-series will appear soon, rumored to include features like improved colour, dust remover on the sensor, smaller body, improved autofocus, improved resolution, together with new lenses).
I think what the M8 has going for it is that its the best RF digital on the market today, its fun using RFs (simple manual control), the resolution is already adequate for the kind of print sizes most of us will be printing at and the M8 re-produces the clarity and unique lens characteristics of leica lenses.
Hopefully Leica will make the sensors upgradeble, because its hardly likely that other portions of the M8 can be improved i.e. meter, autofocus like canon/nikon, so the only changes would be the sensor; and its unlikely that Leica will change the design of the M8 body.
hehe .... never underestimate the power of technology >< depreciation ...:sweat:Hehe. I say 30% due to the little red dot.
Not necessarily .... coz the DSLRs would have improved/advanced too and the style of shooting is distinctly difference.
Everyone agrees that the little red dot is worth its weight in gold for films ..... but i am not too sure when it goes digital .... what if, Canon & Nikon go digital RF ..:think:
Ansel
Senior Member
Actually if you look at the used market for those Leica p&s digilux, the depreciation was not as bad compared to the jap ones. So the red dot does have it's power to hold value. Plus the fact that the M8 won't be a mass market product, going by its price, which means it will ultimately be quite rare, with many people showing interest the moment it appears on the B&S thread, and this will help the seller get a higher resale price.
So, in short, depreciation will not be as high as 50%, but will probably be somewhere between 20-30% depending on condition. Just my 2 cents as usual.
clubgrit
Senior Member
Well, a Leica has its own charm. If one can afford the M8 without having to think about depreciation, why not ? A Leica is always more expensive than the rest anyway.
What I find desirable about the Leica M8 is the classic Leica look and size. I've seen some photos taken with the M8 at the Rangefinder forum and it's good.
On the other hand, I still prefer film, so I'd rather get the elusive mint LHSA M6 TTL or black paint M4 (the M4 being my favorite M). And adopt a wait-and-see for a used Leica M8, it can wait ... but by then there probably is an M9
What I find desirable about the Leica M8 is the classic Leica look and size. I've seen some photos taken with the M8 at the Rangefinder forum and it's good.
On the other hand, I still prefer film, so I'd rather get the elusive mint LHSA M6 TTL or black paint M4 (the M4 being my favorite M). And adopt a wait-and-see for a used Leica M8, it can wait ... but by then there probably is an M9
alvinchuan
Member
Here is my view:
Technically depreciation depends on the cost of the asset, residual value of the asset and useful economic life of the asset.
Since technology changing so fast. The economical life is going to very short 5 years at most. If I assume a conservative the residual value of a M8 is 10% of original cost. The depreciation would be about $1500 per year. Is M8 worth buying at all? My answer is yes if you have the disposable income.
Cheers
Alvin
In accounting term, you are probably right.
But in the real world, DSLR doesnt work that way, IMO.
The "residual"value of the M8, IMO should be at least 30% of the original cost. My personal estimate valuation for the technology depreciation:
1st year : 30%
2nd year : 30 + 20%
3rd year : 30 + 20 + 10%
4th yr : 30 + 20 + 10 + 10%
5th yr onwards: 30 + 20 + 10 + 10 + 5%
In the longer term, i think Leica should hold its value due to the little red dot, as well as the limited supplies (and less models change).
Like you said, yes (for anything as well) if you have the disposable income :bsmilie:
I've got the Canon 5D, Leica M6, wanted the M8, but got the Epson R-D1s. I have tried the M8 and had some pictures taken on my own SD card, and the IQ is the best. The 5D is second, only because it is hard to take sharp pictures at low shutter speeds. The Epson nowhere as good as the 5D, but now I carry the R-D1s everywhere with me because of its size and convenience. With CV lenses, I don't worry about banging it around.
My strategy? I'll get an M8 second-hand, when it has lost 50 percent of its value. Then it will be the camera I'll carry around with me everywhere.
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