Leica M3 or MP?

[supperman]

Hi!

I'm thinking that I might fulfill my dream next month and get a *gulp* Leica M for street photography. I want it fully mechanical, so that I can pick it up and snap. I've read a little from cameraquest.com about the different Ms, and I think I kind of like either the M3 or the MP. I think the attraction of the M3 is the price and the really unique magnification of the RF. As for the MP, well... I think it's one of the newest, so I reckon that it should have lots of improvements over the M3, like metering (I think), but it's lots more expensive and I don't think I can find a 2nd hand one that easily here in the US.

What would you guys recommend? This is my first foray into RFs, so I'd appreciate any comments.

Cheers!

 

[kingpin]

Have u done RF before? If not and u are just trying out, then why go Leica? There are other cheaper RFs that u can get to shoot RF. One example is the the Voigtlander. But I agree that that the Leica lenses are one of the best in 35mm. The most costly investment is the lenses. If u really have to choose between M3 and MP, then from the perspective of cost effectiveness, I would recommend M3. The MP is new and at $4.4k (local price, cheaper overseas) u would be v hard put to get many lens.

Focus on getting good used Leica lenses with a used M3 or even a Voigtlander Bessa R2 body.

 

[melhjt]

I assume you have gone thru the decision-making process to arrive at your choice of a leica, so i'll take it from there.
Leicas are beautiful cameras, in terms of functionality, performance and aesthetics...and as a leica M user myself, I can fully understand your choice over other RFs such as a bessa. The fluidity of its mechanics are unmatched.
Having said that, there are many models of Ms available 2nd-hand so choose carefully. You mentioned you want a mechanical camera that you can pick up and shoot. Apart from the M7, all the other Ms will do that. I use a couple of M6ttl and i them as quick to pick and shoot as any other M.
While the MP was made to hint back at the earlier Ms, it does have a meter so there'll still be an "off" button on the shutter dial, which you'll want to use to avoid accidental battery drain, but will have to switch when you're about to shoot. Hinderance? I don't think so...
The MP has an improved viewfinder and focussing patch compared to the M6 or earlier M7s but then, the M3 has always been touted to have the best flare-free operation so VF-wise, they are about level.
All this leaves you with the simple choice of cost and what you feel comfortable with.
I agree that since you're starting out, spend less on the camera, more on the lenses. while some can survive with a one camera, one lens set-up, you may feel differently.
Do check out the leica forum on photo.net for more info. its a really active forum with loads of leica users.
Hope this is useful and welcome, in advance to the world of the leica M!

Melvin
www.hjtan.com

 

[y0gi0h]

Other than the lack of a meter, the VF of M3 (x0.91, yes, it's flare-free and better than the MP's finder IMHO), its build quality, even the engraving (sorry, can't help it) beats the new MP flat. Price wise, needless to say..(you can get a good user M3 for US$600+. from eBay easily). A new MP is USD2659.

However, M3 is really for 50mm and up. If you shoot 35mm or 28mm, you need an external viewfinder which I found very awkward to use. So, maybe an M2 is a better choice. (M4 is even better, but costs much more, like double that of M3)

 

[Cash]

mp or m3, it depends on how much u r willing to spend . Of cos, the mp has that meter but i feel the construction is much nicer on that m3.

for more versatility, get a used M6 or M4p with additional framelines for wides.

but the m3 shutter seems the most quiet to me of all the Ms..

 

[supperman]

Thanks for all the advice! I like the look and feel of a Leica, and since I think I take quite some time to get used to a camera, I might as well just jump straight into a Leica instead of switching to it later.

All the different models are really mind boggling... I thought I was more fixed on the M3, but it has been pointed out that there aren't any framelines wider than 50mm, and I do like the 35mm and the occasional 28mm, so I think I will probably have to sit the M3 out.

Because of the cost factor, I'm now more favourably inclined towards the M6 (with or without TTL) 0.58. Would this be a better choice for wide angles?

Thanks again for the help!

 

[melhjt]

I use an M6ttl 0.58x and i really love it with a 35mm lens. I wear glasses and i find it still gives me sufficient space outside of the frame to 'anticipate' action. go for it!

 

[kingpin]

Thanks for all the advice! I like the look and feel of a Leica, and since I think I take quite some time to get used to a camera, I might as well just jump straight into a Leica instead of switching to it later.

All the different models are really mind boggling... I thought I was more fixed on the M3, but it has been pointed out that there aren't any framelines wider than 50mm, and I do like the 35mm and the occasional 28mm, so I think I will probably have to sit the M3 out.

Because of the cost factor, I'm now more favourably inclined towards the M6 (with or without TTL) 0.58. Would this be a better choice for wide angles?

Thanks again for the help!

Seem like u still not sure of wat u wan. Some advice if u have a tight budget. Do your research first. Buy used Leica M bodies with used Leica lenses as a start. That way u will not lose much. Now plenty of M6s on ebay. 2 versions- TTL versions are later versions and non TTLs (known as classics). Non TTLs or classics likely to cost less. Their price depends on their condition. Buy the user versions as the collector versions tend to ask for a lot more. With ebay u take a risk. U have to think thru what sort of photography u wan to do with RF. I find that it is more suited for street shoots and general travel. I also prefer the later Ms. For your info ALL Ms including the M7 can shoot in manual and without batteries. But the M7 can only shoot with 125 and 60 shutter speed without batteries.
As to the view finder - read it carefully and try a few before commiting. I think u should stick to the popular 0.72 instead of the 0.58. I have the 0.58 and was thankful that there is the 1.25 magnifier (=0.72). I use the 35/2 summicron. 0.85 is better for the longer lens like 90 or 135.

 

[kingpin]

Oh u may find this site more useful: www.imx.nl.
Hope u can get your dream leica camera, it's lovely to use.

 

[XXX Boy]

Other than the lack of a meter, the VF of M3 (x0.91, yes, it's flare-free and better than the MP's finder IMHO), its build quality, even the engraving (sorry, can't help it) beats the new MP flat. Price wise, needless to say..(you can get a good user M3 for US$600+. from eBay easily). A new MP is USD2659.

However, M3 is really for 50mm and up. If you shoot 35mm or 28mm, you need an external viewfinder which I found very awkward to use. So, maybe an M2 is a better choice. (M4 is even better, but costs much more, like double that of M3)

Leica M3 does not have a better finder than the Leica MP. Due to the aging of the Leica M3, most of the finder will have a yellowish tint on it. I find that MP is a much better camera than the M3. And Leica MP had improved viewfinder which is flare-free (Leica M6, M6TTL, early M7 does not have the improved viewfinder).
Leica classic M6 or the TTL version are also very good choice if you wanted to start up with rangefinder photography since both of them comes with light-meter.
If you wanted a cheaper rangefinder, you can look up for Leica M4-2 or M4-P, both are very good camera but no light-meter.

 

[XXX Boy]

You can find more useful information about the MP and M3 at this website :-http://www.nemeng.com/leica/002bg.shtml

Hope it helps! And hope you would enjoy rangefinder photography! :sweatsm:

 

[supperman]

You can find more useful information about the MP and M3 at this website :-http://www.nemeng.com/leica/002bg.shtml

Hope it helps! And hope you would enjoy rangefinder photography! :sweatsm:

Oh no! Now the MP looks more attractive again!

I guess in some ways, the cost of the body is not that important, because unlike digital, I think Leica Ms can last for decades, and I intend to do so with mine as well.

The only problem is budgetry constraints. I foresee that I can probably buy a 2nd hand M2/M3 with either a 50mm or 35mm Summicron, or go for broke and get a brand new MP, but without any lenses, at least for now. To tide me over, I'm thinking of getting an adapter to use my Zeiss MM/AE lenses on the MP.

I can't have them both! What do you guys think?

 

[Cash]

i forgot to add that the main draw of the Ms are the lenses and not the bodies imo.

get a reasonably priced body , an m4p imo, and a good lens, the 35 asph 1.4 imo and some good films...and u're on ur way.

 

[y0gi0h]

Leica M3 does not have a better finder than the Leica MP??

Read what Andrew Nemeth (another professed Leica Guru, just like E. Puts &...) has to say in the link quoted.(M3/MP VF )

Quote: "Compared to an M3, I would say the new MP is almost as flare-resistant - but the M3 still has a slight edge, remaining whiteout or flare resistant in every situation I encountered. In a dark room with a single, harsh light source, on a rare occasions (probably less than four times in six months), I have found the MP's patch can sometimes catch some oblique light and lose contrast. To the MP's credit though, it never completely disappears, allowing you to still focus. ......(then he talked about how dim an aged M3 VF would be..)

Last autumn I was able to trade the older M3 before its finder completely died, for a late model s/stroke M3 with a great, bright rangefinder. An M3 with a rangefinder in this condition still has a slight edge over an MP (as detailed in the first point above), but only marginally so. "

Let's not confuse the issue of VF's capability with VF's aging.

While I said the M3 VF is better than that of the MP as "MHO", I could make such claim as I have both M3 and MP in my hands to compare. (well, my M3 is above #1 million and is like new, so the result could be very different from what Andrew Nemeth's old M3.)

Anyway, you can't go very wrong with either one. It's the $$$$ that would tip the scale most of the time.

 

[y0gi0h]

To tide me over, I'm thinking of getting an adapter to use my Zeiss MM/AE lenses on the MP.

While it is technically possible to use adaptor to mount your Zeiss lenses on the Leica M, you will have to scale focus and the huge SLR lens probably would block most part of the VF. Not a practical solution, IMHO.

 

[XXX Boy]

Oh no! Now the MP looks more attractive again!

I guess in some ways, the cost of the body is not that important, because unlike digital, I think Leica Ms can last for decades, and I intend to do so with mine as well.

The only problem is budgetry constraints. I foresee that I can probably buy a 2nd hand M2/M3 with either a 50mm or 35mm Summicron, or go for broke and get a brand new MP, but without any lenses, at least for now. To tide me over, I'm thinking of getting an adapter to use my Zeiss MM/AE lenses on the MP.

I can't have them both! What do you guys think?

Yes, a Leica M camera will able to last for decades. Consider the cost of a M camera is expensive but it will serve you till you retire! And even to pass down to your grand-son! :blah:
Look at how durable is the Leica M shutter is :-

http://nemeng.com/leica/007b.shtml

Personally, I use a grip made by GMP, USA. It is a very well-made metal air-craft grade alu grip which even surpass the quality of Leica one (too plasticy).

Pic of GMP M-Grip

 

[supperman]

Thanks for all the useful tips and advices. After much deliberation, I decided to go for an M6 Classic 0.75. The M3 without any framelines below 50mm is just too limiting for me since wide angles are my favourites. On the more modern end, I decided that the MP is really not worth the money. After some reading, it turned out that the MP is not too very different from the M6 Classic, and in fact, Leica can upgrade the finder on the M6 to the MP for US$275. Therefore comparing the 2, I think the M6 is definitely more cost effective.

I had a really hard time deciding between the M2/M4 and the M6. However, my mind was made up for me when I saw this deal; an M6 Classic with a 35mm f/1.4 Summilux for US$1735!:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...&category=30030&sspagename=STRK:MEBWN:IT&rd=1

Can't wait to start shooting!