Legria HV40 + GT35Pro, advice needed

[walabee]

Hello,

Due to budget constrains, I am thinking of getting a Legria HV40 camcorder and attaching a budget GT35Pro 35mm adapter, and then adding my canon 50mm f/1.8 on top of it all.

Anyone here with any experience with this? Is the quality of film-look there? Would it be possible to hand-hold it while shooting?

Thanks in advance.

 

[danialhr]

Are you using this setup for serious work? Your plan is a decent setup but may not be suitable to work on commercial projects. With a 35mm adapter like the GT35 Pro will give you nice filmic look due to the ability to play with the depth of field. I currently own the cinevate brevis mp2. An adapter that you may want to do a research on cause it is great piece of innovation producing high quality images but the right understanding on how to use an adapter will make the difference on how gd your image will look.

Anyway is there a HV40?

Hello,

Due to budget constrains, I am thinking of getting a Legria HV40 camcorder and attaching a budget GT35Pro 35mm adapter, and then adding my canon 50mm f/1.8 on top of it all.

Anyone here with any experience with this? Is the quality of film-look there? Would it be possible to hand-hold it while shooting?

Thanks in advance.

 

[jaegersing]

One problem with Canon lenses on a 35mm adapter is that there is no way to control the iris. Most people would use a Nikon mount instead so they can fit lenses that have an aperture ring.

If you do have to use Canon lenses, the aperture will be stuck wide open all the time. This may be acceptable to you, but you then need to use ND filters to control the exposure. Focussing outdoors is also a problem with a wide open lens, because the HV40 LCD panel is not easy to see in bright sunshine. You can fit a hood of some kind to help with that though.

 

[walabee]

Are you using this setup for serious work? Your plan is a decent setup but may not be suitable to work on commercial projects. With a 35mm adapter like the GT35 Pro will give you nice filmic look due to the ability to play with the depth of field. I currently own the cinevate brevis mp2. An adapter that you may want to do a research on cause it is great piece of innovation producing high quality images but the right understanding on how to use an adapter will make the difference on how gd your image will look.

Anyway is there a HV40?

I would be using this to build up my portfolio. Would mostly be doing personal short films and such. I think the brevis mp2 would be totally way out of my budget. And i guess if i do get the GT35Pro, it would be my first step to understanding how to work an adapter.

One problem with Canon lenses on a 35mm adapter is that there is no way to control the iris. Most people would use a Nikon mount instead so they can fit lenses that have an aperture ring.

If you do have to use Canon lenses, the aperture will be stuck wide open all the time. This may be acceptable to you, but you then need to use ND filters to control the exposure. Focussing outdoors is also a problem with a wide open lens, because the HV40 LCD panel is not easy to see in bright sunshine. You can fit a hood of some kind to help with that though.

You mean i can't control the aperture of the lens? Even if i put it on my DSLR? oh man..

But i do have a 24-105mm f/4. Do you think zoom lens would work decently?

 

[jaegersing]

You mean i can't control the aperture of the lens? Even if i put it on my DSLR? oh man..

But i do have a 24-105mm f/4. Do you think zoom lens would work decently?

What you can do is put the lens on your DSLR, set the aperture, and then remove the lens without switching off the DSLR. This will lock the aperture. It works, at a slight risk of causing some shorting damage, and with the burden of carrying around the DSLR body.

If the zoom lens is f4 all the way to 105mm it might work. But if it stops down when you zoom in, you might start to see some artifacts from the adapter. I haven't used the GT35 so it is best for you to find an online forum for that adapter. There you will find out more specific problems and tips for how to deal with them.

 

[surrephoto]

Canon EF lenses are not a good idea with 35 mm adapters because of the electronic aperture issue. Focusing will be a pain also due to the small front focus ring.

I guess you can consider an old Nikon 50 mm f1.4 MF lens. The focus rings are far more comfortable than the recent AF lenses.

 

[walabee]

Canon EF lenses are not a good idea with 35 mm adapters because of the electronic aperture issue. Focusing will be a pain also due to the small front focus ring.

I guess you can consider an old Nikon 50 mm f1.4 MF lens. The focus rings are far more comfortable than the recent AF lenses.

Any idea how much wld this lens cost? and where can i get it from?

Also, do you know which place sells the canon HV40?

But i think using a canon ef lens would be more cost effective for me, because i already have 2. Besides, i can set the aperture using my DSLR, though with the risk of damaging either parts. If the lenses are affordable, then maybe i would consider about it.

 

[surrephoto]

Any idea how much wld this lens cost? and where can i get it from?

Also, do you know which place sells the canon HV40?

But i think using a canon ef lens would be more cost effective for me, because i already have 2. Besides, i can set the aperture using my DSLR, though with the risk of damaging either parts. If the lenses are affordable, then maybe i would consider about it.

Since you don't need autofocus... A Nikon 50 mm f1.4 AIS for example would cost less than $200 on the 2nd hand market.

For a easy start, you can look for Nick at Cam X, Peninsular-Excelsior shopping mall B1.

 

[Bamboopictures]

Before you commit to the purchase, stop and do the math. The HV40 is already $1700 and GT35Pro is above $400 plus shipping. Why not get a DSLR like the Nikon D5000 or the Panasonic GH1? You will get triple the CMOS size, probably 5-6 stops more of sensitivity. GH1 even has autofocus in the video mode. D5000 is only $1200! You will get DOF without having to deal with vignetting, light loss, ground glass grain, rails. etc

 

[walabee]

Before you commit to the purchase, stop and do the math. The HV40 is already $1700 and GT35Pro is above $400 plus shipping. Why not get a DSLR like the Nikon D5000 or the Panasonic GH1? You will get triple the CMOS size, probably 5-6 stops more of sensitivity. GH1 even has autofocus in the video mode. D5000 is only $1200! You will get DOF without having to deal with vignetting, light loss, ground glass grain, rails. etc

i've already done the math. And am still doing it all the time. im in no rush to purchase anything of yet.

If i were to get this set up (hv40 + gt35pro), total cost i calculated would be around $3k i believe. The pros of this set up is the ease of editing, which is why im going for tape. i've read about the DSLR's video capabilities and i believe that their file formats aren't easy to edit. Correct me if i am wrong.

True getting a DSLR that you mentioned may seem cheaper, but i do have to consider lenses. I'm already using a Canon 40D and own 3 canon lenses. I wldn't think it is very cost efficient for me to invest in another set up.

Besides i don't think i will need autofocus. When i do need it, i believe i can just remove the adapter from the video camcorder.

True with the light loss, vignetting and ground glass, but that is only affected depending on what situation you use, i believe.

And getting a DSLR would also require me to get rails. So this problem isn't limited to only this set up. So after considering all these, i think getting the hv40 and adapter wld be much better.

Oh, and i can shoot at 24fps.

 

[Bamboopictures]

I used to have a HV20 and Letus35 mini.For me it was a pain to use for several reasons.
The light loss was astounding no matter what the DOF makers claim. And I used only fast nikon AI prime lenses. ( f2 faster) Even on a bright sunny day, there wasn't enough light if the subject is in the shade! For indoors set-up, you literally had to light like a Hollywood set. Keys and fills for the subject and more lighting for the background. Documentary style shooting is totally out of the question. This is of course when you don't want any gain to kick in. In full auto mode, the HV20 will introduce gain (and grain) even outdoors. To get around that, you need to shoot in the spotlight mode all the time. This is the easiest go- around to disable gain.
Next is focusing. DOF on my longer lenses 85mm onwards are so shallow, a few centimeters is all the difference between sharp and blur. Subjects have to trained and reminded to move in a rehearsed path to stay in focus. Pulling focus is also a bitch not to mention lugging an extra monitor to check focus. HD is very unforgiving when it comes to focusing.
Even if everything is perfect, the ground glass image is considerably softer than DSLR image. The look at best is 16mm film. Definitely not the razor sharp, high-res image of traditional 35mm cinema.
If you are using a non-flip DOF adapter, you have another host of problems to contend with in production and post.
If quality is what you are after, the Canon 5D Mark II maybe a better choice; given that you already own Canon lenses.

 

[walabee]

I used to have a HV20 and Letus35 mini.For me it was a pain to use for several reasons.
The light loss was astounding no matter what the DOF makers claim. And I used only fast nikon AI prime lenses. ( f2 faster) Even on a bright sunny day, there wasn't enough light if the subject is in the shade! For indoors set-up, you literally had to light like a Hollywood set. Keys and fills for the subject and more lighting for the background. Documentary style shooting is totally out of the question. This is of course when you don't want any gain to kick in. In full auto mode, the HV20 will introduce gain (and grain) even outdoors. To get around that, you need to shoot in the spotlight mode all the time. This is the easiest go- around to disable gain.
Next is focusing. DOF on my longer lenses 85mm onwards are so shallow, a few centimeters is all the difference between sharp and blur. Subjects have to trained and reminded to move in a rehearsed path to stay in focus. Pulling focus is also a bitch not to mention lugging an extra monitor to check focus. HD is very unforgiving when it comes to focusing.
Even if everything is perfect, the ground glass image is considerably softer than DSLR image. The look at best is 16mm film. Definitely not the razor sharp, high-res image of traditional 35mm cinema.
If you are using a non-flip DOF adapter, you have another host of problems to contend with in production and post.
If quality is what you are after, the Canon 5D Mark II maybe a better choice; given that you already own Canon lenses.

That much light loss huh? Because i saw some video footage of the GT35Pro in indoors without any lightings, and that was what pretty much convinced me.

Also when using this adapter, i think most will be used on static shots. No movements of subjects. Besides, anything with shallow depth of field will be hard to focus, including DSLR. Thats why im getting the flip focus monitor sold by the adapter maker.

Quality wise, video shot would mainly be posted on youtube/vimeo. So i really don't expect any great quality. Just something that can pass of as nicely shot to the common masses. For that price ($3000), i really think its very good.

I'm actually considering the 5D mkII also. But after reading through it, i have some doubts. For example, editing and 24fps, sound wise, and some features that wouldn't be available.

Anyway, isit easy to flip the video in post production?

 

[Bamboopictures]

It is hard to judge the quality from online video. It may look bright, but there is discernable gain once you view it on a HD monitor. The most important point to note is the single tiny CMOS (1/2.7" in the case of HV40) is hardly enough to tackle indoor conditions in daytime much less with a light hungry adapter. The results I got from the HV20 was so unsatisfactory that I ditched it for a Samsung HMX20 (1/1.8" CMOS). The trade-offs in terms of focusing speed and stabilisation was hardly worth it. I've all but given up on small CMOS cameras.
If you look at this chart, you will see just how much bigger the CMOS on a Mark II is compared to HV40. I dare say its 20 times bigger! Think about how that translate into sharpness, dynamic range and low light sensitivity!
http://www.slashcam.com/news/single/Canon-DSLR-camcorder-2010--7486.html
Flipping in post is easy. Shooting with an upside down image is the bigger challenge. You'll either need a flip-hack or a seperate monitor with a flip function
Cineform has released a new version of Neoscene that claims to convert MarkII's AVCHD to quicktime at faster than real-time.