Introducing.... R4

[enghong17]

tempted by the R4 + 28 1.9 ultron combo, but have seen some comments from users saying that the lens is too big and blocks out the lower right corner of the 28mm view...

i thought it'd be a dream combo, but now i'm not so sure.

chiif, any thoughts?

I have the 28mm ultron and its a great lens. Only thing is like you said, the size. With the hood, its almost as large as my rokkor 90mm. However, the large aperture more than make up for the size. The other 28mm VC alternative, the f3.5. is much smaller and i think is the smallest lens in the VC range. However, the f3.5 kinda restricts it from low lighting situations.

About the lens blocking the VF, its about 10-20% blocked (i am using a CLE). Personally i don't find it a problem as i can agar with the top right hand edge as an indicator of where the frame ends.

I would get the 3.5 if i were to use it for travelling and the ultron if i shoot more in low lighting. Again, that's if the 3.5 is still available.

 

[gohaj]

just wonder if RF needs to follow the same rule (i.e. shutter speed should be 1/focal length to prevent handshake)?
I am waiting patiently for the 21P or 25P to arrive! :bigeyes:

 

[chiif]

Yes, the lens is bigger than the normal 28/f3.5 or 40mm/f1.4. But it's just a matter of getting used to it. As what EngHong17 has said, he basically sum up everything from a user perspective.

Personally, when I shoot, I normally don't see through the viewfinder very long. Framing is usually done on my mind. When I bring up the camera, it's to make sure what I want to take is in the frame, it's usually a very quick process so that my subject will not be too conscious of me taking them.

So the agarration comes in. As long as my subject is in the centre or in the frame, I am fine. RF is never 100% accurate and definintly not WYSIWYG.

Like I normally advise my customers, know what they want first and be sure that it will suit their needs. If my customer do not shoot low light often and only like to shoot scenery, landscape, then the 28mm/f3.5 will be more suitable. If my customer is a street shooter, like to shoot people in stealth, shoot at market, shoot at shopping malls, shoot at Pasar Malam, shoot at temples, shoot at churches, shoot in MRTs, shoot at night... then definitly have to go for the f1.9. Even better, ,get my 35mm/f1.2! :bsmilie:

 

[pai]

thanks for the input enghong.

and thanks for the patient reply chiif.

i think i can get used to the size of the lens itself. i use a film slr and my primary lens is a very big and heavy 17-35 recently i've been wishing hard for a bright 28mm prime, as i've been taking a lot of pix in low light, and i find my 50 1.4 too long. but the minolta 28 f2 is discontinued and very rare, and the CZ version may not be available for another 1 or 2 years.

i somehow ended up looking at the ultron 28 f1.9... then read the R4 announcement... and the idea of a small, light, quiet setup to complement my slr gear started to take hold and become more and more desirable... :devil:

the shooting situations that you describe (streets, night etc) are exactly the reason why i started wanting a bright 28 in the first place. the major thing holding me back now is that as an slr user, i'm really not sure if i can get used to rangefinder focusing as well as the non-WYSIWYG thing. i've shot a few rolls on an lca, and it didn't really work out for me. but i'm sure the bessa is a completely different creature

 

[chiif]

the major thing holding me back now is that as an slr user, i'm really not sure if i can get used to rangefinder focusing as well as the non-WYSIWYG thing. i've shot a few rolls on an lca, and it didn't really work out for me. but i'm sure the bessa is a completely different creature

Actually, if you have shot film before, this won't be much different. The moden day technology really make things so convenient that most people after taking a shot, will look at the LCD and make sure the shot is good. Using film, you don't have that luxury. Normally after taking 36 frames, when I went home to process, or send to lab to process & develop, unless I got photographic memory, I probably would not remember very well the actual angle or framing that I shot the photo. There may be some parallex difference when using RF, but that's negligible. Using wide angle, you probably won't even notice it at all.

LCA is a fixed lens camera. Pretty different. I can let you have a feel of the Bessa and see whether you like it or not.

 

[ifirdauzi]

just wonder if RF needs to follow the same rule (i.e. shutter speed should be 1/focal length to prevent handshake)?

Nope, to me, 1/15 is good enough with 35 pancake and R2A, 1/30 with Xpan and 45, with good breathing techniques i.e. inhale, exhale, inhale and shoot, you may get 1/8 for R2A+Pancake and 1/15 for Xpan. i've tried similarly the rules 1/focal length by using EOS3+PB-E2 and 17-40 on 17mm ASA 100, and i failed :sticktong

i dont like WYSWYG, because i want to know what is entering and leaving my frame

regards
Igor

 

[centurion_sg]

I shot film SLR and went DSLR (all Nikon), and recently added an RF after trying it out, initially with a borrowed Yashica Electro and then bought the R3m. The framing and focusing turned out ok for me (R3m), what was gained was the mobility and discreetness of the smaller setup. Using the DOF prefocus method made shots speedy and inconspicuous. More deliberate shots were easy to focus too without the lens being "indecisive" and noisy. Do I miss the WYSIWYG, well sometimes, but it's a different "WYSIWYG" having both eyes wide open to scout around and watch for that "decisive moment"

...
the shooting situations that you describe (streets, night etc) are exactly the reason why i started wanting a bright 28 in the first place. the major thing holding me back now is that as an slr user, i'm really not sure if i can get used to rangefinder focusing as well as the non-WYSIWYG thing. i've shot a few rolls on an lca, and it didn't really work out for me. but i'm sure the bessa is a completely different creature

 

[chiif]

having both eyes wide open to scout around and watch for that "decisive moment"

Yes, what's important in shooting is being observant. I notice photographers so engrossed in focusing and seeing the viewfinder, totally miss out the action going on outside the small little VF.

Having shot with RF, I noticed I enjoy my holiday and walkabout more as I am more observant to my surroundings and the people around....

Igor,
What you mentioned is what we learnt in the army "the fundamentals of shooting". I used to apply on my shooting in my army days 17 years ago. Incidently, it's the same as shooting on the camera! One thing we also learnt in shooting with M16, is always find a support to lean on. If can't find any support, make sure we lean one foot forward and get into a steady position, to prevent the recoil from affecting the shot. If we move after we fire, then 100% the shot will never be accurate.

Same apply to shooting on camera. Keep both eyes open even after firing and make sure follow through, don't move for 1 sec after pressing the shutter. What I noticed when using SLR is that the mirror flap and we have a tendancy to close the eye just for a moment. That's instinctive, sometimes it's hard to shake off. In RF, we can always keep both eyes open and even after pressing the shutter, our eye still won't shift. And hence minimise movement. I appy this technique when shooting with DSLR & SLR too. Now, I focus on my DSLR with manual lens both eyes open.

To certain extent, I find shooting with RF improve my skill and when I moved back to SLR, I find that I shoot better. Low light at 1/8 or even 1/4, not a problem at all.

 

[pai]

Actually, if you have shot film before, this won't be much different. The moden day technology really make things so convenient that most people after taking a shot, will look at the LCD and make sure the shot is good. Using film, you don't have that luxury. Normally after taking 36 frames, when I went home to process, or send to lab to process & develop, unless I got photographic memory, I probably would not remember very well the actual angle or framing that I shot the photo. There may be some parallex difference when using RF, but that's negligible. Using wide angle, you probably won't even notice it at all.

LCA is a fixed lens camera. Pretty different. I can let you have a feel of the Bessa and see whether you like it or not.

yes i'm a film user. I understand what you mean about the lag between taking the shot and seeing the result.

sent you a PM

 

[glchua]

Temptation....

Would an eye-glass wearer be able to see the whole 21mm framelines?

 

[doug3fflux]

beautiful...simply beautiful...

 

[madmacs]

i'm having fun with this :bsmilie:

the viewfinder looks so bright and sharp that i keep forgetting to do one or more of:
- check framing
- check focus
- check exposure

omg... :sweat:

 

[pai]

i'm having fun with this :bsmilie:

wah lau. serious poison victim

 

[chiif]

Would an eye-glass wearer be able to see the whole 21mm framelines?

Yes, at 0.52x. I can see the whole 21mm frame when I put my glasses close to the finder.

But again, my glasses might be different from yours...

Come try and take a look lah....

Just have to give me a ring.....

 

[benny]

Any more users care to share feedback about this camera?

Cheers,

 

[tribal.snake]

nb... for a moment i tot chiff intro-ing a new camera!

 

[Verticoastro]

I'm using a Bessa R... recently, I put my Bessa R on a tri pod for a landscape shoot and during focusing.. I noticed that the view finder did a slight movement diagonally... It must be the parallex correction kinda of thing...

Anyway I'm currently saving up for a R3M... as I only shoot in the range of 35 - 50mm... I need a fully manual camera just in case the batteries die on me on the mountain...