HD workflow with FCP 6 and Color - Need advise

[BMPhoto]

Hi all FCS expert

I have recently started editing my videos with Final Cut Studio on my MacBook Pro. I was impressed with the software till I started Color grading/correction using Apple Color. This is where I run into issue and need help. Details as follow:

1) I intend to edit all my footages in HD format. Though I will eventually cut them into DVD, I intend to keep original work in HD format so that I could cut them into Blueray when Blueray becomes affordable.

2) However, after Color grading/correction with Apple Color, I discover that I need to render it to either Uncompressed or Apple ProRes 422 format. Both of which is very time consuming and occupies lots of HDD space (though ProRes 422 HQ occupies lesser space, but it is still much larger than the original HDV footages). Somehow, I can't render it back to HDV format in Apple Color.

3) I understand that it will also take a long time to render ProRes format to DVD in Compressor (have not started on this yet).


I have searched through clubsnap and DVI forum, but I can't find any good answer. Hence, can I ask all FCS experts out there:

a) What is your typical FCS HD process that possibly address the time and HDD issue?

b) Is there a better process to handle Rendering after Apple Color grading that is both faster and does not occupy so much HDD space (my 90min Color rendered QT video is now taking up more than 100GB space even in ProRes 422 HQ format)? I now have issue backing up these footages since it requires so much HDD space.

Thanks in advance for your advise.

Vincent

 

[DXNMedia]

Welcome to the world of real HD video workflow.

I would suggest that you keep your HDV workflow within FCP, including doing your color correction within FCP6...skip the Color application or you can do render the ProRES quality videos back to HDV resolution after you do your grading.

 

[blackmondy]

If you are not ready to edit with FCP on a single video layer, you are not ready to use Color. Period.

Use Colorista plug-in for FCP instead.

http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/pro...s/apple-final-cut-pro/magic-bullet-colorista/

 

[BMPhoto]

Welcome to the world of real HD video workflow.

I would suggest that you keep your HDV workflow within FCP, including doing your color correction within FCP6...skip the Color application or you can do render the ProRES quality videos back to HDV resolution after you do your grading.

Hi DXNMedia

Thank you. Color grading is challenging, but exciting. Apple Color is very powerful, I have tried and realised that I can achieve so much industry standard effect with it.

Quick question, how could I render ProRes quality videos back to HDV? Do I use Media Manager or I need ext HW for this job? Thanks.

 

[BMPhoto]

If you are not ready to edit with FCP on a single video layer, you are not ready to use Color. Period.

Use Colorista plug-in for FCP instead.

http://www.redgiantsoftware.com/pro...s/apple-final-cut-pro/magic-bullet-colorista/

Hi

To me, there's no such thing as ready or not ready. I believe in learning. Since I have invested into FCS and it came with Color, there is no reason I should not invest effort and time into learning it besides FCP, Soundtrack Pro, Compressor, Livetype and all else. No one is born to be an expert in everything. You never know whether you can be a colorist or not without trying. At least I try and gotten some good experience out of it.

I've managed to journey in Color reasonably well except now encountering with HDD and time issue I've mentioned earlier. That's why I'm asking and believe some real experts out there could give good advise to me and all else in the Forum who are also keen to learn.

Thanks for the info and opinion. I will KIV whether I would buy this software when FCS has already come with such powerful and flexible feature found in Color. Thanks.

 

[DXNMedia]

After you complete your grading, pump back to FCP natively in ProRES and export QT to HDV. :thumbsup:

Once you reach this stage, be prepared to invest in Quad-core or Octo-core CPUs and fast raided eSATA/SCSI video drives.
If you use single FW400 drives i will bet that before your project is completed, your HDD is very likely to fail due to the stress it's taking.


Again, welcome to the real HD video post production...where heavy investment in equipment & time = money. I'm sick of customers asking why i charge so much for video post work as compared to fellow colleagues in the industry who only uses DV & HDV. :sweat:

 

[viix]

Hmm, unless you do secondary grading, why use color when the fcp 3 way corrector is sufficient for primary? And, if you need to, only grade those needed shots in color while the rest of the grading in FCP..

These way your machine time is trimmed to what needed. Save time, save space.. until you have the raw power and storage capacity.

 

[BMPhoto]

After you complete your grading, pump back to FCP natively in ProRES and export QT to HDV. :thumbsup:

Once you reach this stage, be prepared to invest in Quad-core or Octo-core CPUs and fast raided eSATA/SCSI video drives.
If you use single FW400 drives i will bet that before your project is completed, your HDD is very likely to fail due to the stress it's taking.


Again, welcome to the real HD video post production...where heavy investment in equipment & time = money. I'm sick of customers asking why i charge so much for video post work as compared to fellow colleagues in the industry who only uses DV & HDV. :sweat:

Thanks very much. Salute to you! this is valuable information that I couldn't even get from anywhere else. However, as you've mentioned, its high investment, I would take a step at a time. I've yet to convert this serious hobby into a business, I have to be careful in what I invest.

Thanks. I will explore the conversion step after I have finished the current video project. i'm moving it into Compressor stage soon for the main video and at the same time planning a Motion track to create a Montage (attempting 3D effect for this Montage). Its getting exciting as I progress. Thanks and appreciate all your advise this time and also in the past.

 

[BMPhoto]

Hmm, unless you do secondary grading, why use color when the fcp 3 way corrector is sufficient for primary? And, if you need to, only grade those needed shots in color while the rest of the grading in FCP..

These way your machine time is trimmed to what needed. Save time, save space.. until you have the raw power and storage capacity.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm exploring, secondary grading. For me, after all the reading and exploring, I'm figured out that I can grade my video more than just color correction and high contrast look. I'm looking into creating the right mood and right contrast at the right spot in the video. I'm not a qualified colorist yet (as I've even yet invested in studio grade calibration tool and Monitoring system), but I'm building my skill now beyond functioning as a mere editor, ie Colorist, Sound editor (mingling with Soundtrack Pro) and even Effect (mingling with Motion, and if possible, Shake in the future). This is indeed an exciting space. Thanks.

 

[viix]

Yes, that's exactly what I'm exploring, secondary grading. For me, after all the reading and exploring, I'm figured out that I can grade my video more than just color correction and high contrast look. I'm looking into creating the right mood and right contrast at the right spot in the video. I'm not a qualified colorist yet (as I've even yet invested in studio grade calibration tool and Monitoring system), but I'm building my skill now beyond functioning as a mere editor, ie Colorist, Sound editor (mingling with Soundtrack Pro) and even Effect (mingling with Motion, and if possible, Shake in the future). This is indeed an exciting space. Thanks.

I think AE is an easier route for most instead of shake. Unless you need
proprietary modules within and like node based editing.

I don't usually grade in color, but do everything in AE instead as I can control more options in 32bit with limitless layers and rotoscoping.

Well, calibration is not necessary as long as you know how to judge with the histogram and vector-scope to monitor any clipping/intensity.

 

[blackmondy]

Hi,

I am not questioning your ability to learn.

But Color currently only supports one layer of video. In addition, it will not honor any filters, transitions or speed changes from FCP.

Apparently some features were crippled when Apple bought over Silicon Color, including distributed rendering. I have tested in on a 2 x quad-core and it does not multi-thread well at all.

 

[DXNMedia]

Yeah...i personally dun quite like color despite it being powerful...
There's nothing I cannot do within FCP's 3-way color corrector and a few other little tweaks to get what I need to achieve.

In worse case scenarios, I'll just export the clip in question and grade in color, then export just that clip back to FCP.

 

[BMPhoto]

I think AE is an easier route for most instead of shake. Unless you need
proprietary modules within and like node based editing.

I don't usually grade in color, but do everything in AE instead as I can control more options in 32bit with limitless layers and rotoscoping.

Well, calibration is not necessary as long as you know how to judge with the histogram and vector-scope to monitor any clipping/intensity.

Hi viix

Interesting comment. Will look into AE. I don't own AE at the moment as I only have the Web Premium CS3 on my Mac at the moment. Will explore.

Yup, I had use color parade and vector-scope to guide me in my recent color correction. But ultimately, to achieve the "look", I believe I still need to use my eyes. Hence I'm still planning for calibration and proper TV monitoring for my system. Appreciate all your suggestions.

Hi,

I am not questioning your ability to learn.

But Color currently only supports one layer of video. In addition, it will not honor any filters, transitions or speed changes from FCP.

Apparently some features were crippled when Apple bought over Silicon Color, including distributed rendering. I have tested in on a 2 x quad-core and it does not multi-thread well at all.

Thanks for clarifying. I am aware of this limitation, but it seems ok when I re-export back from Color to FCP, all transitions, filters and speed seems intact. I have just re-exported it back last night and I'm examining it before Compressor stage probably tonight.

Well, if Apple is keen to push this software further, hopefully they would improve it in their next release. They probably had rush to integrate, bundle and launch this product together with FCS2 after purchasing it from SC.

Yeah...i personally dun quite like color despite it being powerful...
There's nothing I cannot do within FCP's 3-way color corrector and a few other little tweaks to get what I need to achieve.

In worse case scenarios, I'll just export the clip in question and grade in color, then export just that clip back to FCP.

Noted your suggestion. I guess I will relook at my workflow on this. This is my first experience with Color, albeit running into issues, its a good experience with this industry grade Color grading SW. Probably I need to work out some balance between achieving the effects (or achieving the look in the video), time and cost (ie equipment and HDD space) in my workflow moving forward. Thanks.

 

[BMPhoto]

Hi

Thanks for all your advise and comment, I have just completed another round of Color Correction using the Color Correction 3-way filter in FCP 6. Having now "played" with both Color Correction approaches, I have compiled my observation in the following. Pls feel free to comment so that we could all learn from one other.

Apple Color
Pros:
1) Capable of multiple Secondary Color Correction/Effects on a single footages
2) Powerful Secondary Color Correction combining both Vignettes and HSL Qualifier function
3) Providing Curves function for both Primary and Secondary Color Correction
4) Tracking capability
5) Clear Preview Corrected footages

Cons:
1) Unable to render the video back to HDV format, only ProRes 422 or Uncompressed - result in large storage required for HD projects
2) Very long Rendering process - result in demand for higher HW spec and longer project time
3) Very long Compression process - - result in demand for higher HW spec and longer project time

FCP 3-way Color Corrector Filter
Pros:
1) Can be rendered into HDV format - saves precious Storage space
2) Relatively shorter render time - still took quite a fair bit of time to convert Sequence to Reference video for Compressor.
3) Relatively shorter Compression process

Cons
1) Only single Secondary Color Correction capability on top of Primary Correction
2) Only HSL Qualifier supported in Secondary Color Correction, no Vignette capability to further define the corrected area.
3) No Curves for both Primary and Secondary Color Correction, only color wheels
4) No Tracking function
5) Unclear preview in FCP when the filter is applied. Only able to obtain clear preview after rendering (maybe I have done some setting wrong that results in such unclear preview...)

Hence, I could now really appreciate DXNMedia's suggestion to carry out most Color Correction in FCP and only send those that requires "special" treatment/effects to Apple Color. I hope that Apple would "marry" the best of both world into a single workflow in their next release of Final Cut Studio.

Thanks.

 

[Hobbes00]

I CC all my work on FCP - No one can tell the difference unless its going to be blown up to film or projected by a Christie projector.

But, if I have the time (on bigger budget productions mostly) i'll do colour. =)