[Film Developing] Pulled film question

[Leleleleon]

I recently shot a roll of lomo 400 color negative @ 200 ISO setting, in an attempt to overexpose it (I also don't know if I'm doing the pulling of the film right, since It's the first time I'm attempting to overexpose a roll to experiment a little. Does pulling a film means just changing the ISO setting of my film camera or does it mean something more) anyway, I sent it to my neighbourhood's kodak place to develop and asked if they do the development of film different; i understand that if you wanna develop a pulled film you should develop it for a shorter period of time, but they didn't seem to provide the service and only develop all color negatives one way. Are there shops in Singapore that does developing of pulled film and if so what price point am i looking at? (I paid 18 bucks for developing of 2 rolls and burning them into CD)

 

[one eye jack]

I recently shot a roll of lomo 400 color negative @ 200 ISO setting, in an attempt to overexpose it (I also don't know if I'm doing the pulling of the film right, since It's the first time I'm attempting to overexpose a roll to experiment a little. Does pulling a film means just changing the ISO setting of my film camera or does it mean something more) anyway, I sent it to my neighbourhood's kodak place to develop and asked if they do the development of film different; i understand that if you wanna develop a pulled film you should develop it for a shorter period of time, but they didn't seem to provide the service and only develop all color negatives one way. Are there shops in Singapore that does developing of pulled film and if so what price point am i looking at? (I paid 18 bucks for developing of 2 rolls and burning them into CD)

Don't know what you are trying to achieve but you can do it just as well in post processing?
Anyway why one pulls film is because:

Pulling film allows you to obtain slower shutter speeds, or wider apertures within the working range of your specific camera and lens without resorting to ND filters and the like. You will generally pull a film when the light, combined with the film speed results in you not being able to get a shutter speed / aperture combination you can shoot at, or want. For example, you may want to shoot at f/2 to isolate your subject but your camera can only give you f/5.6 with its highest possible shutter speed. Developing pulled film requires you to reduce development time in order to compensate for overexposure.

There’s also a third area to briefly explore; overexposing and overdeveloping.

If, for example, you take a film rated at ISO400 and overexpose it by shooting it at a slower Exposure Index (such as IE100), then develop it for longer than the time suggested by the vendor, this is known as overdeveloping. So you’d have a film that is both overexposed and overdeveloped.

As it is you merely overexpose but develop normally.Of course you can buy your own C41 chemicals for colour film but it's better to start with black n white film.Do note colour film (not slide/transparancy film) has wide exposure lattitude.So you have to experiment.

From this article and more:
http://emulsive.org/articles/getting-started-pushing-pulling-film-michael-bitaxi

 

[Leleleleon]

Don't know what you are trying to achieve but you can do it just as well in post processing?
Anyway why one pulls film is because:


As it is you merely overexpose but develop normally.Of course you can buy your own C41 chemicals for colour film but it's better to start with black n white film.Do note colour film (not slide/transparancy film) has wide exposure lattitude.So you have to experiment.

I'm actually pretty new to photography (moreoever film) but could you explain if actually changing the ISO setting on the film camera affect anything at all? (I mean i know what it does on a DSLR, high ISO grainy but shoots better at low light etc but say the roll of film I'm using is @ 400 but on the camera I dial it at 200 instead of 400, does it actually matter?)

 

[one eye jack]

I'm actually pretty new to photography (moreoever film) but could you explain if actually changing the ISO setting on the film camera affect anything at all? (I mean i know what it does on a DSLR, high ISO grainy but shoots better at low light etc but say the roll of film I'm using is @ 400 but on the camera I dial it at 200 instead of 400, does it actually matter?)

Firstly photography is about light for without light you see nothing and therefore no subject of interest.Total darkness means abscence of light.
A camera is akin to the human eye but not analogous or equal in sensivity.
The human eye has a dynamic range of 100,000:1 whereas photographic film
and digital image sensor of 10,000:1 .So what you see cannot be fully captured or recordered by man made devices!

The art of photography is to simulate as much as possible what the human eye
percieve using eye,brain perception and properties of light sensitive medium such as photographic film and now digital technology.This includes the perception of 3D or depth/distance or scale of view/ vision or simply perspective.

Personally I would recommend newbies start with digital because it is cheap
and convenient.There are many things that used to be done in the darkroom
that now can be done more efficient ,fast and more powerful in digital photographic software like photoshop/lightroom, etc.

The first thing to learn is EXPOSURE! Below is a quote from master photographer/artist Ansel Adams' book The negative.You can...I know I'm asking you to do something bad but what to do when we are poor men? You can find this and many others by Ansel and others online.I can't
share a link as I don't want to get CS in trouble over copyright.

In The Negative you learn about visualisation and Image values,exposure,the zone system,darkroom and much more.

To return to your question what you do in digital is similar to film in terms of exposure.The grainyness of digital is not the same as it's digital electronic noise from electronic amplifiers/transistors and other components that manifest as coloured dots/blobs but in actuality the image sensors only record in light values of bright/dark intensity.The colour information is calculated or derived from software image processing in camera in a file known as RAW or Jpeg.

In film it is analogue or simply the light values is interpreted by light sensitive materials like silver halides that depending on ISO (known as ASA rating in those days) the lower the sensivity eg. ISO 100 the finer/smaller the grains of silver halide.This is the real graininess of the crystals of silver halide that you see when photo is printed on photographic paper!
For colour film the 3 coloured filters are sandwiched together in film.
The negative image IS the file.What you get is a film that has different densities of opaqeness to light to pass through thereby different light intensities to expose the photographic paper.

No matter what digital can do to simulate film look it is not the same.
Also note the term white balance for digital and colour temperature for film.
In digital cameras the default setting is AWB (automatic white balance) so people are oblivious to what the camera does in terms of colour balance/how white is white, the colour of light varies at different times of the day.So is the colour of artificial light sources like incandescent bulbs,tungsten,flourescent and now LEDs.Films are balanced for daylight or tungsten.So if you get a colour cast in photos it's because the white balance is wrong or off or using daylight rated film indoors with artificial light sources and vice versa with tungsten film..but you may deliberately like the warm orange colour like incandescent
or candle light to set the mood!

Chapter3 Exposure

The concept of the "perfect negative" is both intriguing and exasperating
to the student and photographer. If exposure and processing
are both "normal," using recommended average techniques, it may
seem that the negative should be "correct" even when it fails to
yield the anticipated print. Such a negative may contain considerable
information yet not be adequate for interpretation in terms of an
expressive image. There is simply too much room for error in the
use of "average" meter readings and processing; the ability to produce
a fine print depends on greater precision.

If there is such a thing as a perfect negative, it is one exposed and
developed in specific relation, to the visualized values of the functional
or expressive print. As our aesthetic and emotional reactions
may not be ruled by simple numbers, we must learn how to evaluate
each subject and understand it in relation to the materials used. Even
so, it cannot be taken for granted that a properly executed negative
will ensure that printing will be an easy process; the appropriate
paper and developer combination, for example, may be elusive. But
without careful control we are likely to have many negatives that
defy satisfactory printing.

 

[catchlights]

short answer: Just process at it is, it will come out fine.

FYI, I rate all my colour neg ONE full stop slower, to get more saturated colour.

 

[Octarine]

I'm actually pretty new to photography (moreoever film) but could you explain if actually changing the ISO setting on the film camera affect anything at all? (I mean i know what it does on a DSLR, high ISO grainy but shoots better at low light etc but say the roll of film I'm using is @ 400 but on the camera I dial it at 200 instead of 400, does it actually matter?)

You override the ISO figure, forcing the camera to adjust the metering for ISO 200, a lower sensitivity than ISO 400. The resulting exposure is +1EV, one stop over.
You can do exactly the same by dialing in +1EV manually on your camera (e.g. in A, P and T mode) or in Manual by adjusting aperture and shutter speed to get +1EV in the metering.

 

[Leleleleon]

Firstly photography is about light for without light you see nothing and therefore no subject of interest.Total darkness means abscence of light.
A camera is akin to the human eye but not analogous or equal in sensivity.
The human eye has a dynamic range of 100,000:1 whereas photographic film
and digital image sensor of 10,000:1 .So what you see cannot be fully captured or recordered by man made devices!

The art of photography is to simulate as much as possible what the human eye
percieve using eye,brain perception and properties of light sensitive medium such as photographic film and now digital technology.This includes the perception of 3D or depth/distance or scale of view/ vision or simply perspective.

Personally I would recommend newbies start with digital because it is cheap
and convenient.There are many things that used to be done in the darkroom
that now can be done more efficient ,fast and more powerful in digital photographic software like photoshop/lightroom, etc.

The first thing to learn is EXPOSURE! Below is a quote from master photographer/artist Ansel Adams' book The negative.You can...I know I'm asking you to do something bad but what to do when we are poor men? You can find this and many others by Ansel and others online.I can't
share a link as I don't want to get CS in trouble over copyright.

In The Negative you learn about visualisation and Image values,exposure,the zone system,darkroom and much more.

To return to your question what you do in digital is similar to film in terms of exposure.The grainyness of digital is not the same as it's digital electronic noise from electronic amplifiers/transistors and other components that manifest as coloured dots/blobs but in actuality the image sensors only record in light values of bright/dark intensity.The colour information is calculated or derived from software image processing in camera in a file known as RAW or Jpeg.

In film it is analogue or simply the light values is interpreted by light sensitive materials like silver halides that depending on ISO (known as ASA rating in those days) the lower the sensivity eg. ISO 100 the finer/smaller the grains of silver halide.This is the real graininess of the crystals of silver halide that you see when photo is printed on photographic paper!
For colour film the 3 coloured filters are sandwiched together in film.
The negative image IS the file.What you get is a film that has different densities of opaqeness to light to pass through thereby different light intensities to expose the photographic paper.

No matter what digital can do to simulate film look it is not the same.
Also note the term white balance for digital and colour temperature for film.
In digital cameras the default setting is AWB (automatic white balance) so people are oblivious to what the camera does in terms of colour balance/how white is white, the colour of light varies at different times of the day.So is the colour of artificial light sources like incandescent bulbs,tungsten,flourescent and now LEDs.Films are balanced for daylight or tungsten.So if you get a colour cast in photos it's because the white balance is wrong or off or using daylight rated film indoors with artificial light sources and vice versa with tungsten film..but you may deliberately like the warm orange colour like incandescent
or candle light to set the mood!




View attachment 13338

Indeed very in-depth; I'd like to ask then, let's say the ASA of the roll of film I'm using is @ 400, but after loading the roll, i dialed it to be at 200 instead on my film camera, does it actually do anything by dialing it wrongly?

 

[one eye jack]

Indeed very in-depth; I'd like to ask then, let's say the ASA of the roll of film I'm using is @ 400, but after loading the roll, i dialed it to be at 200 instead on my film camera, does it actually do anything by dialing it wrongly?

As the two moderators have alluded to above but for clarity of understanding in the photographic system of working the scientific geniuses have done their good work to make it easy.A scene is illuminated by light and you have film or image sensor as the light sensitive medium to record it.There are 3 variables of Aperture,shutter speed and ISO rating which determines how fast or slow film/sensor takes in light.It is known as the exposure triangle.You have to understand what is meant by the term STOP. A stop in terms of aperture,shutterspeed and ISO. Each stop is halfing or doubling of light exposure so there is a relationship of the three variables .Then there is a finer resolution of 1/2 and 1/3 stop.Technically what you are doing as per your question is not wrong but intentionally under or over exposing to get a specific photographic result.For a complete understanding I hand you over to this link:

https://photographylife.com/what-is-exposure-triangle

But if you prefer the video version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eVjUrY9a9c

 

[azzurri]

I recently shot a roll of lomo 400 color negative @ 200 ISO setting, in an attempt to overexpose it (I also don't know if I'm doing the pulling of the film right, since It's the first time I'm attempting to overexpose a roll to experiment a little. Does pulling a film means just changing the ISO setting of my film camera or does it mean something more) anyway, I sent it to my neighbourhood's kodak place to develop and asked if they do the development of film different; i understand that if you wanna develop a pulled film you should develop it for a shorter period of time, but they didn't seem to provide the service and only develop all color negatives one way. Are there shops in Singapore that does developing of pulled film and if so what price point am i looking at? (I paid 18 bucks for developing of 2 rolls and burning them into CD)

To put it simply, yes, you can push or pull your film by adjusting your ISO dial. It's one of the methods. Other ways, as pointed by others, include setting the exposure compensation or via the shutter speed/aperture. The ISO dial method, along with the exposure compensation method, are probably the easier (to remember) methods.

How you develop it will depend on what you're trying to achieve. For instance, if you're underexposing for saturation, you basically underexpose and develop as per normal. If you're pushing to shoot in low light, you'll need to develop based on the ISO that you shoot at. For instance, when I'm shooting indoors, I tend to shoot TriX at 1600 instead of 400. I will then develop the film based in the 1600 timing and temperature.

Not all studios do push and pull these days. Even if they do, they may only allow one or two stops push/pull max (which is sufficient for most people). Iirc, Kim Tian Color at Hong Lim Complex does allow push/pull. They charge about 50% more iirc