Evolution of LTM to M adapters (post Digital M)

[gommy]

This to share my experience with the LTM adapter in response to "LTM lens on M9" thread.
Most of the original LTM to M adapter were of the Voigtlander Type I, ie with 1/3 of flange cut away to accommodate the action of the Infinity Lock of some lenses that need to be depressed to disengage. However, this cut away remove the part of the flange where the 6 bits code goes on.

With the introduction of M8 and the need for 6 bits coding especially wrt to cyan vignetting compensation with use of UV/IR cut filter, there was a need to have LTM adapter that have the full flange so that it can be coded.

John Milch, a Leica user and a CNC machinist in the States, was the first to make adapter out of solid brass with recesses similar Leica M lenses to allow coding of LTM lenses. It cost US$150 each.

Later on, Voigtlander introduced the full flange Type II adapter but without the recesses milled. It allows hand-coding with a marker and template. A CSer then brought in these Type II adapter with recesses milled from Taiwan. They went for S$180 a piece initially and later price dropped to S$150.
John Milch also accepts these Type II adapters for milling for US$25 a piece.

Problem with these Type II adapters is that the flange blocks & prevent the depression of the infinity lock of some lenses so you can’t disengage to focus. Lenses affected are those with the infinity locks located near the base of the lens such as Hektor28mmf6.3, Hecktor50mmf2.5 and Elmar50mmf3.5. Lenses with infinity locks located higher up has no issue with these Type II adapters.

 

[gommy]

To overcome the problem, I actually trim away part of the flange to allow the infinity lock to disengage for affected lenses.

 

[gommy]

Sometime in 2009, I chanced upon a new adapter on a Japanese website made by Kipon which has only 1/6 of the flange cut away and preserve the area for coding. It cost about S$100. They worked fine but somehow I do not quite like the finish.

Just 3 months ago, saw these on eBay at much cheaper price so ordered another 2 to try. However with these 2, when I mount the lens on the camera the distance index of the lens seems to align at the 9 o’clock position instead of usual 12 o’clock.

 

[gommy]

I tested them on the Elmar50f3.5 and guess what; as I've suspected, the infinity lock is blocked this time.

Somehow the “timing” of the threads is different from the earlier one I've ordered. I don't think it’s a QC problem as Kipon makes many great adapters like the Alpa to LTM but I have a feeling that these two that I bought from eBay were factory rejects & someone just got them and put on eBay selling them cheaply. They are still usable for lenses with infinity lock located higher up. Kipon adapters are now available at our friendly Voigtlander dealer, Chiif.

Most importantly for all LTM adapters, the critical thing is the flange thickness as that will affect focus and rangefinder coupling.

Hope this is useful.

 

[aomoon]

Wow! thanks Gommy for the in-depth writeup on this !!!

 

[wongsan]

Doc, thanks for the useful information!!

 

[jonmanjiro]

Thanks for the clarification. I suspected that the problem was with some, but not all, LTM lenses that have an infinity lock.

Have you ever had any problems with the focus tab/infinity lock on an LTM lens hitting the frame preview selector lever on a M-mount camera?

FYI as far as I know, Kipon adapters are made in China.

 

[gommy]

You're most welcome guys!
@jonmanjiro: So far, I do not have or rather have not noticed problem of infinity lock hitting frame preview lever on M camera. Will keep a look out on this.
Yes, I should clarify, Kipon are Made in China but I first saw it on a Japanese website and ordered them.

 

[jonmanjiro]

@jonmanjiro: So far, I do not have or rather have not noticed problem of infinity lock hitting frame preview lever on M camera. Will keep a look out on this.

I remember that ferider over at RFF had a problem with an LTM W-Nikkor 3.5cm f2.5 hitting the frame preview lever on one of his cameras, so he changed the lever to one from an M3 so the tab would clear it. Forget which camera...

Excellent descriptive photos above by the way Two BIG thumbs up :thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[jonmanjiro]

Oops, was a W-Nikkor 2.8cm f3.5 not a W-Nikkor 3.5cm f2.5. Here's the post by Roland (link).

 

[Royale With Cheese]

woah! Nice read up from our resident Dr :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[gommy]

Oops, was a W-Nikkor 2.8cm f3.5 not a W-Nikkor 3.5cm f2.5. Here's the post by Roland (link).

Interesting!! I suppose we'll get quirk like this as these lenses were not designed for the M.
I thought I could go test it tonight as I have the W-Nikkor 3.5cm f2.5 LTM but I do not have the 2.8cm

 

[newghost]

Very informative write up with nice pics!... thanks for sharing Doc! I've learnt something new today!

 

[shiryuu59]

very informative... thank you...

 

[hookonclassic]

BRAVO...CJ should have your posting pin up in sticky...

What a great effort from our friendly Dr. Gommy with words and picture to explain to new comers such useful technical information...:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[N15M0]

I see that the 6 bit coded adaptor was created for the digital M8 and M9. But from what I know, M9 has this manual lens selection feature which allow up to select the lens type. Hence what would be the advantage of a 6 bit coded adaptor?

 

[gommy]

I see that the 6 bit coded adaptor was created for the digital M8 and M9. But from what I know, M9 has this manual lens selection feature which allow up to select the lens type. Hence what would be the advantage of a 6 bit coded adaptor?

One word, convenience! You don't have to go into the menu to change the selected lens.
Example with a coded WATE, when you first mount the lens, the menu will come on to ask you to select the focal length. But as you use the lens and change the focal length along the way without going into the menu to change the selection, it will be encoded with the previous focal length in the exif data. This happens to me often.
However, with the MATE, when you change focal length, you actually mechanically "change" the mount to trigger a frameline change in the VF and thus automatically, the correct focal length will be registered in the exif data. So you don't have to think about it!
Same with an M-mount lens, I would still send to Solms for 6 bits coding if it's not coded even though with M9 you can select the lens from the list. I think it's a long list to run through to select, unless you can change the order of the list to put your own list of lenses in the "Top" level. Correct if I'm wrong here.

 

[N15M0]

I see so the main reason is because of convenience. But it won't have any damage on the camera right.

 

[gommy]

I see so the main reason is because of convenience. But it won't have any damage on the camera right.

No damage except for the collapsible ones that collapses too deep! Not many of these though.
See these thread for the collapsibles:
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...0310-collapsible-lenses-safe-collapse-m8.html
http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica...865-screwmount-elmar-50mm-m9.html#post1086292

 

[gommy]

Just an update to this thread with the release of M240 with Live View.
Some users have reported that they got an error message of "No Lens Connected" when they tried using some LTM lenses.

I believe the problem is due to the fact that for LV to work, the 6 bits sensor on M240 need to be "covered" over. The older adapter (e.g. Voigtlander Type I) with 1/3 of the flange cut-out will leave the sensor uncovered and this lead the camera to think that no lens is attached, thus the error message.

To solve the problem, use an adapter that has no cut-out like Voigtlander Type II (see above for limitation for some lenses) or adapter with 1/6 to 1/4 cut-out like Kipon or Metabones. These latter adapters also have recesses milled for DIY 6 bits coding.


I would also like to highlight the Note: in M240 Manual page 162 (Red underlined)