Do modern multi grade paper solves the issue raised by Ansel Adams in Zone System?

[sfoto100]

Ansel Adam wrote:

You may well ask why anyone should go to such pains to produce consistent negatives when we have printing papers available in several contrast grades and other printing controls that allow us to compensate for negative of differing scales. While every such control has its uses, it is best to strive for the optimum negative to minimize dependency on printing contrast control, since the tones of the print may be best achieved with the use of normal-contrast paper. In particular, papers of higher-than-normal contrast make it increasingly difficult to control the refinements of the higher and lower tonalities. It might be preferable to work for a negative of extensive density range and print only on the longest scale papers, but there is then little additional tolerance when we desire sofer results. - chapter 4 The Zone System from the book The Negative by Ansel Adams

but i am not sure if since the tones of the print may be best achieved with the use of normal-contrast paper. In particular, papers of higher-than-normal contrast make it increasingly difficult to control the refinements of the higher and lower tonalities. is still true nowadays.. anyone know? Does Ansel refers to those fixed grade paper? Do current multi grade paper have the same issue?

 

[Achim Reh]

First of all, modern multigrade are all PE papers, you never get the same quality as on Baryt Paper.
If you are working on PE based multi grade paper now, please try to gte a chance to see a professional baryte paper print from Adams, Weston, Bush or one of these guys in real live. This might explain everything
Second, please read and understand the zone system.This system was developed to match the scene , the film and the paper , to achieve the desired contrast range .. in a way , it was the ground work for modern color management

 

[sfoto100]

First of all, modern multigrade are all PE papers, you never get the same quality as on Baryt Paper.
If you are working on PE based multi grade paper now, please try to gte a chance to see a professional baryte paper print from Adams, Weston, Bush or one of these guys in real live. This might explain everything
Second, please read and understand the zone system.This system was developed to match the scene , the film and the paper , to achieve the desired contrast range .. in a way , it was the ground work for modern color management

yes, i think everyone should have their own zone system.. haha..

but i must really try to see some great prints.. i am still a frog in a well..

Do you know where can i go to see some good prints?

 

[Riotbmx]

Sorry off topic, don't wanna create another thread.

Anyone printed with C-41 BW neg before?

 

[paapoopa]

Sorry off topic, don't wanna create another thread.

Anyone printed with C-41 BW neg before?

do you mean using c41 neg and print out in black and white?
if yes.
ya did that a number of times, procedures similar to printing black and white neg, just expose longer and double the contrast.

 

[Riotbmx]

do you mean using c41 neg and print out in black and white?
if yes.
ya did that a number of times, procedures similar to printing black and white neg, just expose longer and double the contrast.

Yup. Kodak BW400CN to be exact. Thanks

 

[paapoopa]

Yup. Kodak BW400CN to be exact. Thanks

oh sorry, what i mean was i did prints from C41 color neg.

have never tried printing from C41 black and white neg before.

 

[Riotbmx]

oh sorry, what i mean was i did prints from C41 color neg.

have never tried printing from C41 black and white neg before.

I think there's only one way to find out... Haha. Btw I'm gonna order some Arista paper from Freestyle, let me know if you are interested

 

[losheng]

Anyone printed with C-41 BW neg before?

I have printed from Ilford XP2 before. Is there anything in particular that you would like to know? Without the orange mask in color negatives, you'll get much better contrast and tonality compared to doing b/w printing with color negs. It has a different look, but as far as printing wise, there's fundamentally nothing different from what you would do with the other b/w negs.

 

[Riotbmx]

I have printed from Ilford XP2 before. Is there anything in particular that you would like to know? Without the orange mask in color negatives, you'll get much better contrast and tonality compared to doing b/w printing with color negs. It has a different look, but as far as printing wise, there's fundamentally nothing different from what you would do with the other b/w negs.

I was thinking that the orange mask might greatly reduce the contrast and make the image really flat.

 

[losheng]

I was thinking that the orange mask might greatly reduce the contrast and make the image really flat.

I see .. well, you don't have to worry about it. These C41 based B/W films don't have these masks. I remember that these films have a wide exposure latitude, so you can shoot anything between ISO100-800 in the same roll without push/pull processing.

 

[Riotbmx]

I see .. well, you don't have to worry about it. These C41 based B/W films don't have these masks. I remember that these films have a wide exposure latitude, so you can shoot anything between ISO100-800 in the same roll without push/pull processing.

I tried printing a frame today and it turned out pretty well. I developed it(BW400CN) in HC-110, so it's a little more orangy than regular C-41 negs. I had to print it wide open at f2.8 for 30secs.

 

[losheng]

I tried printing a frame today and it turned out pretty well. I developed it(BW400CN) in HC-110, so it's a little more orangy than regular C-41 negs. I had to print it wide open at f2.8 for 30secs. /QUOTE]

Putting these c41 based films through b/w processing might not held the full characteristics of these films. You may want to run one of these rolls through c41 to see a dye-based b/w neg

 

[Riotbmx]

Patrick told me that before, but I hardly shoot any C-41 so it was a hassle to send it to the lab. No keepers in that roll really so I thought I'll just develop it at home to save 2 trips to the lab. Thanks for the info, I think others who does this regularly will find it useful