different b&w tone from the same film type

[burningacid]

Hello! Need some help from the pros here... I've just started to learn to develop my own b&w film and I realised there's a difference in the b&w tones from the ones developed by the lab in the past although I'm still using the same type of film (Ilford HP5+). Is this due to the difference in the developer used or temp/duration of the process? I do prefer the tones by the developer but not sure how to achieve the same tones...

Photo processed by lab:

Photo processed by me:

If it's the developer, does anyone know what develop the lab could be possibly using?

 

[raytoei]

hi,

first let me say welcome to home development, a very rewarding and time-consuming hobby

the answer to your question is Yes, it is dependent on many things, eg. lens,
exposure and developer as well as developing technique (dilution, agitation method).

Most developers used in shops are Kodak D-76 (fotohub etc). THey are also machine processed.
You can buy D76 at ruby in powder form, powder to make 3.8litre solution cost around 12sgd.

raytoei

ps. your pix are too small to be analyzed, in terms of grain structure
pps. are your negatives scanned by yourself or provided by the shop ? Scanning
produces different look too.

 

[RubbishBin1987]

Use a light box or at least find a lamp with a clean sheet of white plastic above. Place the 2 negative on the setup and inspect with a loupe. If you still have question, take a clear photo with a camera and repost here again.

We cannot comment about the developing, only comparing the 2 neg to see if it could be adjustment in scanning and processed after scan.

1. The shop might out source the developing to many different freelance they trust as b&w developing are more common than color.
2. They might use different developer
3. They might use recycled material
4. If the developing is continous agitation like a drum, it is ok, but if it is standing, it depends on the interval the agitation is carried out. Every half min or every 1min etc.
5. The lab could be using a automated machine which brings factor 4 out.

 

[burningacid]

Hello raytoei! Thanks for the reply! Sorry for the small pics but anyway grains on both pics are ok for me I'm just curious about the tones for both photos. Looks like i still have to wait for a while to finish up my current bottle of developer... Just developed my second roll only. As for scanning, I scanned the negatives which I developed but the one developed by lab was scanned by the lab. I will try and scan the ones from lab to see if there's any difference too. Thanks!

 

[burningacid]

Hello RubbishBin1987, thanks too! I don't have a lightbox but i would anyway trial and error with another developer and also scan the negatives developed by the lab to see the effect first.

 

[RubbishBin1987]

The idea is to inspect your neg, what are you trying to learn from the scan for developing?

 

[burningacid]

The idea is to inspect your neg, what are you trying to learn from the scan for developing?

So what do we see on the negatives? I mean what do we look out for during inspection? Different tones from the negatives?

 

[RubbishBin1987]

So what do we see on the negatives? I mean what do we look out for during inspection? Different tones from the negatives?

The below is a technique used when we need to find a certain developer developing time etc. It should be useful if you are willing to put some effort inside.
Development by inspection is still a useful technique for large format photographers.

 

[crispy12]

Can easily be the result of your scanning/PP workflow. You can get the same effect by adjusting curves or levels.

 

[burningacid]

RubbishBin1987, pardon my ignorance but I don't get the idea of the article because it doesn't seem to explain what i need to check from the negatives for the different b&w tones?

Maybe i missed its point... Or probably its beyond my skill level at this stage

 

[MagnumLite]

RubbishBin1987, pardon my ignorance but I don't get the idea of the article because it doesn't seem to explain what i need to check from the negatives for the different b&w tones?

Maybe i missed its point... Or probably its beyond my skill level at this stage

You didn't miss the point, if you are shooting large format maybe the article will make some sense. As from others posting you can see that its very hard to pin point the actual reason for the difference, since you have taken the the scanned image from the lab and compare to the one that you have scanned yourself, there is always a possibility that the lab might make adjustment for the level and curves, even different scanner and different software use for scanning gives different result. I'm using a Canon scanner and I use both the Canon software and Vuescan, and both result are not the same, the Canon software tend to adjust the setting accordingly.

Maybe you can start all over again, by scanning both pictures on your own scanner and do a comparison, this maybe would be a little accurate, append a higher resolution image here so that the other bros here can see the grain better to advise you as well and don't forget to tell what developer you are using as well.

 

[burningacid]

Thanks MagnumLite, I will try and re-scan both negatives again.

 

[artspraken]

There are too many variables involved in the film workflow to pinpoint with any certainty why an image looks a certain way - particular if scanning is involved

 

[burningacid]

Ok, so I re-scanned both negatives and turns out it's really the scanning process that makes the difference. Now the question is, how do I scan my photos in future such that it has similar tones to the one that Lab has scanned? I suppose I need to tune it under Tone adjustment but how should the graph look like? I tried a couple of different adjustment but it seems to only lighten/darken/higher contrast/lower contrast the photos.

I'm using the Epson V370 scanner btw...

 

[MagnumLite]

Ok, so I re-scanned both negatives and turns out it's really the scanning process that makes the difference. Now the question is, how do I scan my photos in future such that it has similar tones to the one that Lab has scanned? I suppose I need to tune it under Tone adjustment but how should the graph look like? I tried a couple of different adjustment but it seems to only lighten/darken/higher contrast/lower contrast the photos.

I'm using the Epson V370 scanner btw...

This is something you really have to work it out on your own, getting the same exact output as the lab would require the same process flow. There are many things to consider, like what kind of scanner the lab is using, what resolution are you scanning at and the what kind of software are you using to do the adjustment? Least to say replicating the outcome of the lab is really dependent on your resources and skill.

There is a vast difference in saving the scan file in jpeg and tiff format. You would capture and save much more detail in tiff then jpeg, thus when making adjustement with Photoshop for example, you will have more details to play around with as compare to a jpeg file.

Also you are comparing tones taken at night and daytime, you can't expect to have one similar tone when comparing natural daylight and artificial lights at night.

 

[burningacid]

This is something you really have to work it out on your own, getting the same exact output as the lab would require the same process flow. There are many things to consider, like what kind of scanner the lab is using, what resolution are you scanning at and the what kind of software are you using to do the adjustment? Least to say replicating the outcome of the lab is really dependent on your resources and skill.

There is a vast difference in saving the scan file in jpeg and tiff format. You would capture and save much more detail in tiff then jpeg, thus when making adjustement with Photoshop for example, you will have more details to play around with as compare to a jpeg file.

Also you are comparing tones taken at night and daytime, you can't expect to have one similar tone when comparing natural daylight and artificial lights at night.

Alright, MagnumLite, thanks again. I will just play around with the settings again and see if it's possible to get as close as the tones the lab has scanned.

 

[Benji77]

The two shots are not viable comparisons IMO. Each were shot with different 'light', one could be cloudy, the other Tungsten.
If you really want to compare, you would have to shoot ONE roll, same lens, same subjects.
Cut out half of the roll for self development, and the other half send it to your preferred lab.

I would rather you buy a different developer, shoot more, develop more.
Dont waste time comparing.

 

[burningacid]

Howdy... I've already verified that its the scanning that makes the differences (at least to me). I scanned both negatives with same scanner and results gave almost the same tones. It's not what i wanted but at least i know scanning makes big difference too.

Thanks anyway!