Desire to own a Leica

[zekk67]

Hi people,
I currently own a Canon 6D, X100S and X-Pro 1 with the last being the more recent purchase. I bought the X-P thinking it will be a cheaper alternative to appease my desire to own a Leica M. Now I realize I want the Leica even more. I am a civil servant, so it is rather difficult to cough up such large amounts for the camera and lens. So I have a few questions.
1) Should I buy the camera or the lens first?
2) Which lens should I start with? Should I start with a relatively cheaper lens or take the dive and go for something like the 35 1.4?
3) Should I get it from the Leica store or other camera stores?
4) How can I pay for the Leica products at the store? Is it possible to pay instalments? If so, over how long maximum?

 

[Memphis]

Hi there, Leica store are selling at RRP and you might be lucky if they give you a 2-3% discount if you bargain hard.

I would go to authorised resellers like Click! or Cathay..for obvious reasons

For Cathay they offer up to 2 years installment plan depending on the type of credit cards.

Cheers!

 

[nightwolf75]

i assume you do not have any M-Mount lenses to begin with in the first place? if that is the case, IMO get the lens and an leica-fuji lens adapter to try on your X-Pro 1 first. RF manual focusing takes a while to get used to. so rather than splurging on something as pricey as a Leica M + 35 Lux and regretting later, try it out on ur X-Pro 1. if you can get the hang of it, still not too late to get a Leica M later. there are always people throwing one out on buy/sell anyway.

 

[ricohflex]

4) How can I pay for the Leica products at the store? Is it possible to pay instalments? If so, over how long maximum?

People buy a house or a car and pay by installments because they are big ticket items.

Less common for a camera or a lens.

Desire is a feeling that is 100% personal to holder. Different for everyone. So if you die die must have it, then go for it to quench your desire.

Some of us who already own Leica for a very long time, may say...what is the big deal huh? What is so great about Leica? It is reasonably good equipment, but definitely not world's best in all situations/attributes/departments. Leica's appeal lies in its marketing approach - much in the same vein as Miu Miu, Prada & LV. And your choice of word is correct. It is about desire and not performance.

 

[daredevil123]

Just relax guys. Different people buy cameras for different reasons. Some buy to shoot great photos. Some buy to feel good about themselves. Some buy in hopes that others feel good about them. It does not matter why TS wants a certain camera.

 

[obfuscate]

Hi people,
I currently own a Canon 6D, X100S and X-Pro 1 with the last being the more recent purchase. I bought the X-P thinking it will be a cheaper alternative to appease my desire to own a Leica M. Now I realize I want the Leica even more. I am a civil servant, so it is rather difficult to cough up such large amounts for the camera and lens. So I have a few questions.
1) Should I buy the camera or the lens first?
2) Which lens should I start with? Should I start with a relatively cheaper lens or take the dive and go for something like the 35 1.4?
3) Should I get it from the Leica store or other camera stores?
4) How can I pay for the Leica products at the store? Is it possible to pay instalments? If so, over how long maximum?

1) You could use the lens on the X-Pro 1, but you cannot just own the body and not have a M mount lens. M digital bodies depreciate fast, used bodies are cheaper but will still depreciate.
2) I would not recommend buying a cheaper lens only to upgrade later. Just buy the lens you want and stick with it. If money is an issue, don't bother with Leica. Fuji give great value for money for a compact system.
3) Depends. My recommendation is to get a M body with warranty and consider lenses from parallel importers. Buying M bodies overseas from authorised dealers might be a cheaper option. With a M body, you can test the lens to see if the focussing is aligned with the rangefinder on the M body. So you could buy lenses in the grey market, whether locally or overseas.
4) If you want to pay in installments, forget about buying Leica. Not worth getting into debt considering that you are a civil servant.

 

[terencek888]

The key question is: why Leica? Great reputation? Superior performance? Feel good (got class/taste)? or social attribute? Is there anything a Leica system can do but your existing system can't? I think only you can answer this.

If after thinking through, die die (even with limited civil servant's budget) also must get a Leica, then get some lenses first. Leica stuff no cheap one lah. Even an 80-year-old uncoated Elmar 5cm would cost more than $500; any 50mm summicron in decent shape will be at least $1k. The current version of 50mm summicron would cost close to $3k new, hardly good value. (If you just add AA to 50mm summicron, then it is about $10K. Best lens in the world? many would disagree. LOL)

If you "compromise" and get Leica-compatible lenses then the choices are endless, such as modern VC, so many outstanding LTM from the japanese (Nikkor, Canon, Rokkor, Ricoh, Konica, Fujinon, Komura, Topcor, etc), not to mention many Russian LTM like Industar, Jupiter, Orion... these are cheap and good. But if you are into all these, why bother to use a Leica camera in the first place?

If you must get the most current Leica camera and lenses, then you must be prepared to pay a huge sum just for something very basic. A Leica body + a 35 summilux FLE would be easily above $10K (Leica MP + LUX FLE would cost easily $12k?, Leica M240 + FLE would be about $17K?) At this price, how many lenses can you own? CC & instalments? WHY??

Anyway, like all things hard to get, even if you fork out $17K to get an M+FLE, your satisfaction would probably last 3 min. You soon discover this expensive combo does not necessary produce any better pix than your x-pro. Well, don't take my words for it. Go pay 24 months instalments to get it and prove me wrong. May the Noctilux be with you.

Do you own a Leica M system?

 

[Anxin]

Do you own a Leica M system?

Check my ads at BnS
(and no, not gg to ask u the same question. watz so big deal? Leica nia)

 

[zixaw]

Check my ads at BnS
(and no, not gg to ask u the same question. watz so big deal? Leica nia)

Why all the veiled anti Leica posts?

 

[terencek888]

Check my ads at BnS
(and no, not gg to ask u the same question. watz so big deal? Leica nia)

Ok.. Perhaps Leica is not for you, but doesn't mean it is not for everyone else..agree?

 

[ziggy]

To appreciate why Leica can charge so much, and in order to spend within a reasonable budget, I suggest

1. Get a Ricoh GXR body with M mount, which is now clearing at about <$400. Consider getting the viewfinder which is about $180. Try TK Photo, not sure if they still have stocks. Or buy used. For less than $500 you can get the body, M-mount and a viewfinder.

2. Buy a used 35 mm f2 summicron, about $3k for a 9 condition. With the GXR's 1.5 crop, you get a 52mm f2 lens.

With less than $4k, you get a chance to try out and decide for yourself whether the Leica is really worth the money. And if you decide that it is not for you for whatever reasons, you can still sell the lens off without losing too much as Leica lenses usually hold their prices quite well.

If you want to continue with the Leica system, then save for an M9 which is now about $5k used. Or maybe even the Sony A7 altho there may be compatibility issues causing colour shift and vignetting.

Just remember that the Ricoh/M lens combo is all manual focus and no anti-shake system.

Fuji X bodies? I had a XE1 but did not like the colour, plus the very slow refresh rate making MF very difficult. It is also a 1.5x crop. I prefer the Ricoh combo.

 

[fishfish1977]

To appreciate why Leica can charge so much, and in order to spend within a reasonable budget, I suggest

1. Get a Ricoh GXR body with M mount, which is now clearing at about <$400. Consider getting the viewfinder which is about $180. Try TK Photo, not sure if they still have stocks. Or buy used. For less than $500 you can get the body, M-mount and a viewfinder.

2. Buy a used 35 mm f2 summicron, about $3k for a 9 condition. With the GXR's 1.5 crop, you get a 52mm f2 lens.

With less than $4k, you get a chance to try out and decide for yourself whether the Leica is really worth the money. And if you decide that it is not for you for whatever reasons, you can still sell the lens off without losing too much as Leica lenses usually hold their prices quite well.

If you want to continue with the Leica system, then save for an M9 which is now about $5k used. Or maybe even the Sony A7 altho there may be compatibility issues causing colour shift and vignetting.

Just remember that the Ricoh/M lens combo is all manual focus and no anti-shake system.

Fuji X bodies? I had a XE1 but did not like the colour, plus the very slow refresh rate making MF very difficult. It is also a 1.5x crop. I prefer the Ricoh combo.

Nice option. Maybe another cheaper option is get the used m8 and voigtlander lens... Less than 3k and u get a leica body. If happy and please with the rf, then slowly upgrade lenses and even body next time.

The m8 is a damn good camera.

 

[obfuscate]

To appreciate why Leica can charge so much, and in order to spend within a reasonable budget, I suggest

1. Get a Ricoh GXR body with M mount, which is now clearing at about <$400. Consider getting the viewfinder which is about $180. Try TK Photo, not sure if they still have stocks. Or buy used. For less than $500 you can get the body, M-mount and a viewfinder.

2. Buy a used 35 mm f2 summicron, about $3k for a 9 condition. With the GXR's 1.5 crop, you get a 52mm f2 lens.

With less than $4k, you get a chance to try out and decide for yourself whether the Leica is really worth the money. And if you decide that it is not for you for whatever reasons, you can still sell the lens off without losing too much as Leica lenses usually hold their prices quite well.

If you want to continue with the Leica system, then save for an M9 which is now about $5k used. Or maybe even the Sony A7 altho there may be compatibility issues causing colour shift and vignetting.

Just remember that the Ricoh/M lens combo is all manual focus and no anti-shake system.

Fuji X bodies? I had a XE1 but did not like the colour, plus the very slow refresh rate making MF very difficult. It is also a 1.5x crop. I prefer the Ricoh combo.

I think using the Ricoh GXR as a substitute for an M body might not be ideal as there are situations where focussing with it surpasses the experience of using a rangefinder.

 

[zixaw]

Not really anti-Leica. Just like when reading THIS can't help feeling pathetic.

That is really sad, but it really has no place in a photography forum and definitely not in a thread where someone is seeking advice on purchasing Leica gear.

I think some self censorship is required, especially when it comes to personal feelings that really don't contribute to the topic being discussed. It is not constructive and it will only lead to flaming that will lead to the mods coming in.

 

[shepherdmoon]

Some bros have already given very nice advices:
1) try some cheap alternatives before get into the expensive current combos.
2) purchase responsibly. Really not necessary to get into debt for it. It is just another toy, absolutely. Leica is not magic anyway.
3) try to get the most of your current gears. They are far enough to produce way more satisfying image quality if you learn to do it.

I am a owner of DSLR, range finder (inc Leica m system), mirrorless, and leica and non-leica glasses for many years. This is just my two cents.

 

[ricohflex]

The good-intentioned suggestions by others to TS to buy lesser priced alternatives that may function slightly less well/just as well/even better than the Leica body+Leica lens - may not be addressing the relevant point raised by TS.
TS is not desiring to own something else that may function slightly less well/just as well/even better than Leica.

TS desires to own Leica. The brand. The image. Then he should fulfill that wish.

 

[zixaw]

If TS wants the Leica branding then nothing else will scratch the itch.

Go with a lens first then work on the body. Lenses go up in price, bodies will only depreciate.

On the other hand if TS does not need the Leica brand then he needs to think of what it is that buying a Leica will give him that other cameras and lenses cannot.

Traditionally, Leica has/had a few advantages over the competition:

1. With the M9, Leica introduced one of the smallest full frame interchangeable digital cameras on the market.

Not true anymore with the release of the Sony A7 and A7R.

2. Leica digital M cameras are all mirrorless, the Leica M used to be the only full frame mirrorless camera on the market with Live View, allowing one to use almost any lens with the right adapter and focus accurately.

With the A7 and A7R, that is also no longer true. There are alot of other mirrorless cameras on the market but they are not full frame, which in my opinion is quite a big factor.

3. Being mirrorless also means that there is no mirror slap, allowing one to shoot at slower shutter speeds when handheld.

With the A7 that is also no longer true. Can't say the same for the A7R since there is some kind of shutter slap that may actually be worse than a DSLR's mirror slap.

4. CCD sensor. The M9 uses a CCD sensor, while not as advanced as CMOS sensors, it had its own image characteristic that some say adds to the Leica look.

Only a Leica M8, M9, Monochrome, S2 and S still use CCD sensors. The latest Leica M240 uses a CMOS sensor and loses the CCD "look".

5. No AA filter. Without an AA filter on the sensor, the images from the CCD sensor are noticeable sharper than those with an AA filter.

There are now a few full frame cameras without AA filters on the market. Nikon D800E and Sony A7R for example.

6. Rangefinder experience.

For film there are tons of rangefinder bodies, I think for digital you are pretty much stuck with Epson and Leica.

7. Leica lenses. Probably the most important factor for alot of people.

Some feel that Leica lenses are the best that money can buy. True in the past, maybe true now as well. But there are alot of great lenses out there.

8. Size and weight of lenses. Leica lenses are tiny compared to other equivalent full frame lenses.

Did I miss out any other advantages?

Also please note that I only talked about the good things. There are alot of negatives, maybe more than the list of positives But I think I will leave that for another post.

 

[NazgulKing]

Get Leica if and only if you like manual lenses and the RF focusing. Other than that, there's no feature that any of the Japanese companies cannot replicate. Leica's claim to fame is small and compact performance, but when it comes to wide angles, their lenses need software correction to deal with color shift etc. because of their compactness limits what they can do with regard to telecentricity.

 

[richiemccaw1]

Agree with ricohflex. TS is probably at a point in his life where he just wants to be a Leica owner. Nothing else is really a dealbreaker.

 

[xplorer2]

Perhaps a good way for the TS to decide if a Leica M system + lens is indeed the way to go is to get some hands-on and spend some time with it. You can actually rent out the Leica M body + Leica lens from the Leica Raffles store. They charge rental per day and you can even rent out the Leica 50 APO Summicron lens. That way you can decide if the rangefinder way of focusing and manual operation is something that suits your way of capturing images. Much cheaper than to jump in right away and get the body and lens. In this way, you can also decide what lens suits you better as a starter - 35mm or 50mm view point. Some folks prefer 35mm, some prefer 50mm other prefer 28mm - only you yourself can decide how you gravitate towards framing your point of view.