Thinking of getting a canon R mount camera, think again unless you can afford canon lenses. Given the world population demographics, it's understandable why canon is trying to survive for the short term.
Canon killing off third party lenses
- Thread starter one eye jack
- Start date
Actually Canon may not be killing off 3rd party lens makers.
Canon wants its Intellectual Property Rights respected by other companies.
3rd party lens makers may need to pay a license and then they get full technical cooperation from Canon.
So that the 3rd party lenses work properly in Canon R bodies.
The RF mount design may have yet unannounced features that Canon planned for future use.
For users, they do not lose much. Just use adapters if they want to use EF lenses.
China sells many adapters for various lens brands (only manual focus) to use on Canon R bodies.
Canon wants its Intellectual Property Rights respected by other companies.
3rd party lens makers may need to pay a license and then they get full technical cooperation from Canon.
So that the 3rd party lenses work properly in Canon R bodies.
The RF mount design may have yet unannounced features that Canon planned for future use.
For users, they do not lose much. Just use adapters if they want to use EF lenses.
China sells many adapters for various lens brands (only manual focus) to use on Canon R bodies.
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Please ricohflex, acknowledge that canon wants every dollar for itself and not wanting to share with 3rd. party manufacturers, reason is obvious after spending money on R n D canon wants to recover costs. Japs don't licence for the most part so don't dream. Much of what is available from 3rd. party is reversed engineered which is legal. Canon is using it's R mount copyright to threaten lawsuit.So forget 3rd. party adapters too. On the whole it going to backfire on itself unless it can provide cheaper alternatives like their consumer Rfs apsc series lenses.
But people generally want the best L grade at reasonable price which 3rd. party provide.
This goes to highlight the general business challenges that all camera makers face. Fullframe or otherwise as alluded to in that favourite thread of your's..haha
But people generally want the best L grade at reasonable price which 3rd. party provide.
This goes to highlight the general business challenges that all camera makers face. Fullframe or otherwise as alluded to in that favourite thread of your's..haha
I googled this timeline so everyone's on the same page.
As of Today on BHPhoto
It has been reported that Canon Japan's CEO committed to 32 new lenses by year 2026.
https://www.canonrumors.com/canons-roadmap-includes-32-new-lenses-by-2026-according-to-canons-ceo/
30 current Canon-branded RF lenses + 32 future lenses = 62 unique lens SKUs before year 2027
vs
63 current Sony-branded E lenses + unknown future lenses.
It is guaranteed Sony/everyone else will release new lens SKUs that are
- updates to ~10 year old E mount lenses
- equivalent counterpart lenses of their 1st party & 3rd party competitors
- unique focal lengths & apertures that Sony pioneered
From 2018-2022 Canon & Nikon have both put out key focal lengths that photo news agencies & journalists need in their work.
| Brand | Canon | Sony | Nikon |
| Full Frame Mirrorless Mount Established | 2018 | 2010 | 2018 |
| 3rd party lens license | N/A | 2011 (without fee) | 2021 |
| Last dSLR body released | 2020 | 2016 | 2020 |
| Last dSLR body model | Canon EOS Rebel T8i | Sony a99 II | Nikon D780 |
| 2019 Brand ranking | #1 | #2 | #3 |
| End of dSLR manufacturing | 2026(?) | 2021 | 2026(?) |
As of Today on BHPhoto
| Brand | Canon | Sony | Nikon | Pentax |
| Age of Full Frame Mirrorless Mount | 4 | 12 | 4 | 0 |
| Mirrorless Full Frame Lens-only SKU with USA warranty | 30 | 63 | 29 | 0 |
| Mirrorless APS-C Lens-only SKU with USA warranty | 13 | 22 | 3 | 0 |
| Mirrorless Full Frame Body-only SKU with USA warranty | 5 | 9 | 4 | 0 |
| Mirrorless APS-C Body-only SKU with USA warranty | 2 (RF-S mount) | 4 | 3 | 0 |
| Future mirrorless lens roadmap by 2026 | 32 | N/A | 3 | 0 |
| dSLR Full Frame Lens-only SKU with USA warranty | 34 | 4 | 59 | 23 |
| dSLR Full Frame Body-only SKU with USA warranty | 5 | 0 | 3 | 1 |
It has been reported that Canon Japan's CEO committed to 32 new lenses by year 2026.
https://www.canonrumors.com/canons-roadmap-includes-32-new-lenses-by-2026-according-to-canons-ceo/
30 current Canon-branded RF lenses + 32 future lenses = 62 unique lens SKUs before year 2027
vs
63 current Sony-branded E lenses + unknown future lenses.
It is guaranteed Sony/everyone else will release new lens SKUs that are
- updates to ~10 year old E mount lenses
- equivalent counterpart lenses of their 1st party & 3rd party competitors
- unique focal lengths & apertures that Sony pioneered
From 2018-2022 Canon & Nikon have both put out key focal lengths that photo news agencies & journalists need in their work.
So far a YouTube reviewer said Viltrox (China origin) and Samyang (South Korea origin) had been targeted by Canon with threats of legal action.
When Trump was campaigning and subsequently became president, he loved to chant "Make America Great Again" during political rallies.
Well, not sure if this jingoism has now spread to Japan.
Is what Canon doing just the start of extreme Japan Nationalism?
Wait and See.
Did Canon tell Japanese 3rd party lens makers Sigma & Tamron & Tokina, to stop making lenses for RF mount?
When Trump was campaigning and subsequently became president, he loved to chant "Make America Great Again" during political rallies.
Well, not sure if this jingoism has now spread to Japan.
Is what Canon doing just the start of extreme Japan Nationalism?
Wait and See.
Did Canon tell Japanese 3rd party lens makers Sigma & Tamron & Tokina, to stop making lenses for RF mount?
I don't think it's jingoism but an attempt by canon to save it's brand. So what if it has an 80 year history of camera manufacturing.
Just like Kodak film, capitalism only guarantee the fittest survive.
petapixel.com
Just like Kodak film, capitalism only guarantee the fittest survive.
Canon Confirms It's Going After Lens Makers for Patent Infringement
Canon might be the only major camera maker who isn't licensing its mirrorless mount.
In 2011 Sony Discloses Basic Specifications of the "E-mount" for Interchangeable Single Lens Cameras without Fee. This was done to help get to #2 in 2019 displacing Nikon.
In 2021 Nikon selectively licensed their Z mount in the hopes of replicating Sony's success and get to #2 again. Let us see if this will be successful before the 2030s.
Both companies compromised because they had little or no choice at the time they made the decision to license their tech out. Google did this with Android where in the OS is free for consumers & brands to install to remove every possible friction or bottleneck to growth and adoption. Microsoft tried to compete and replicate their desktop business model of a license fee-based Windows Mobile and failed.
Canon is #1 in interchangeable lens cameras. They have little to no incentive to license with or without a fee to 3rd parties as their business model has them earning more selling 1st party lenses. In this respect they are following Apple's business model in the hopes of continuing to be the biggest profit & venenue generator in the perpetually shrinking digital still camera market.
Digital still camera market is experiencing shrinkage so every additional sale of a 1st party body, lens & accessory helps. Without this economies of scale does not function in helping push prices down.
>80% of the 30+ lenses each released from 2018-2022 by Canon & Nikon are
- faster inventory turnover
- better profit margins
The missing EF & F mount lenses that will be released on the RF & Z mounts in the next 4 years will tend to be
- slower inventory turnover
- worse profit margins
Why are they releasing their products this way? Because any for profit company want to get their ROI faster.
In 2021 Nikon selectively licensed their Z mount in the hopes of replicating Sony's success and get to #2 again. Let us see if this will be successful before the 2030s.
Both companies compromised because they had little or no choice at the time they made the decision to license their tech out. Google did this with Android where in the OS is free for consumers & brands to install to remove every possible friction or bottleneck to growth and adoption. Microsoft tried to compete and replicate their desktop business model of a license fee-based Windows Mobile and failed.
Canon is #1 in interchangeable lens cameras. They have little to no incentive to license with or without a fee to 3rd parties as their business model has them earning more selling 1st party lenses. In this respect they are following Apple's business model in the hopes of continuing to be the biggest profit & venenue generator in the perpetually shrinking digital still camera market.
Digital still camera market is experiencing shrinkage so every additional sale of a 1st party body, lens & accessory helps. Without this economies of scale does not function in helping push prices down.
>80% of the 30+ lenses each released from 2018-2022 by Canon & Nikon are
- faster inventory turnover
- better profit margins
The missing EF & F mount lenses that will be released on the RF & Z mounts in the next 4 years will tend to be
- slower inventory turnover
- worse profit margins
Why are they releasing their products this way? Because any for profit company want to get their ROI faster.
In this discussion it is not meaningful to say that we cannot mention other brands. Can only talk about Canon.
That does not make sense. Why?
Because most if not all the reviewers comment on Canon's action - compared to what other brands are doing.
For example, Sony and/or Nikon.
That IS the topic.
Thus it is inevitable to draw comparisons among various brands.
-----------------------------------------
This is basically storm in a tea cup.
Canon lenses { RF & (previous) EF & (older than previous )FD } are quite good.
Bu they are obviously NOT the best lenses in the world.
The best lenses optically in the world belong to other top brand/s.
3rd party lenses will probably be cheaper than RF lenses. Thus they are likely not as good as the RF lenses.
3rd party lenses offer cost savings in exchange for a drop in quality.
3rd party manufacturers only make lenses for a brand/mount that has dominant market share.
Otherwise they do not have enough potential customers.
3rd party manufacturers would NOT make lenses for a brand/mount that has only 0.01% of market share.
----------------------------------------------
Canon has a right to protect its IP. The legal correctness of Canon's action is not in dispute.
In doing this, Canon made a commercial decision to adopt a policy against (some) 3rd party lens manufacturers.
Which is opposite of what Sony has adopted.
Both Canon & Sony are correct, in their own way.
They do the necessary to further their respective interests.
Based on their own unique situation at a particular point in time.
When it started, Sony was a relative newcomer to camera/lens manufacture.
Sony needed wide overwhelming support by 3rd party lens manufacturers. On this aspect Sony has succeeded magnificently.
-----------------------------------------
About this policy, who wins in the long term will depend on many factors.
Fuji, Sony, Nikon or Canon.
That does not make sense. Why?
Because most if not all the reviewers comment on Canon's action - compared to what other brands are doing.
For example, Sony and/or Nikon.
That IS the topic.
Thus it is inevitable to draw comparisons among various brands.
-----------------------------------------
This is basically storm in a tea cup.
Canon lenses { RF & (previous) EF & (older than previous )FD } are quite good.
Bu they are obviously NOT the best lenses in the world.
The best lenses optically in the world belong to other top brand/s.
3rd party lenses will probably be cheaper than RF lenses. Thus they are likely not as good as the RF lenses.
3rd party lenses offer cost savings in exchange for a drop in quality.
3rd party manufacturers only make lenses for a brand/mount that has dominant market share.
Otherwise they do not have enough potential customers.
3rd party manufacturers would NOT make lenses for a brand/mount that has only 0.01% of market share.
----------------------------------------------
Canon has a right to protect its IP. The legal correctness of Canon's action is not in dispute.
In doing this, Canon made a commercial decision to adopt a policy against (some) 3rd party lens manufacturers.
Which is opposite of what Sony has adopted.
Both Canon & Sony are correct, in their own way.
They do the necessary to further their respective interests.
Based on their own unique situation at a particular point in time.
When it started, Sony was a relative newcomer to camera/lens manufacture.
Sony needed wide overwhelming support by 3rd party lens manufacturers. On this aspect Sony has succeeded magnificently.
-----------------------------------------
About this policy, who wins in the long term will depend on many factors.
Fuji, Sony, Nikon or Canon.
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There is one possible reason for this.
It is a guess.
Canon needs to placate Tamron and Sigma, before they agree to make 3rd party lenses for the RF mount.
Cost of production wise, Tamron and Sigma cannot compete with Viltrox and Samyang (or 7Artisans or Meike).
China and South Korea would have lower costs of production than Japanese manufacturers.
Thus Canon needs to stop Viltrox and Samyang first.
Only then Tamron and Sigma may consider entering the market for 3rd party RF lenses.
So far, Tamron and Sigma have been very quiet and guarded about making any statement regarding their future 3rd party lenses for RF mount.
It is a guess.
Canon needs to placate Tamron and Sigma, before they agree to make 3rd party lenses for the RF mount.
Cost of production wise, Tamron and Sigma cannot compete with Viltrox and Samyang (or 7Artisans or Meike).
China and South Korea would have lower costs of production than Japanese manufacturers.
Thus Canon needs to stop Viltrox and Samyang first.
Only then Tamron and Sigma may consider entering the market for 3rd party RF lenses.
So far, Tamron and Sigma have been very quiet and guarded about making any statement regarding their future 3rd party lenses for RF mount.
So far there is no news of Canon sending legal warning to Tamron or Sigma or Tokina. These 3 are Japan 3rd party lens manufacturers.
Canon had acted against South Korea's Samyang and China's Viltrox. Foreign companies.
Canon action generated much negative publicity from independent YouTube camera reviewers.
Those YouTube reviewers who are official Canon ambassadors will not dare to object. They are silent.
Canon is taking a risk with this action.
Why is Canon taking this risk?
When you take a risk, there must be some possible beneficial outcome that makes the risk worth taking.
Canon feels confident of its market share and expect this action will not turn (most) potential buyers away from Canon brand.
A minority of potential buyers may reject Canon because of this.
Canon has explained that the electronics of its RF mount is a work in progress. That means it is subject to future changes.
One scenario is buyers of Samyang and Viltrox lenses find their lenses cannot function or lose some capabilities after a future Canon firmware update.
If Canon did not stop Samyang and Viltrox NOW, then 10 years later in 2032 owners of such 3rd party lenses may kick up a storm.
Those owners unreasonably blame Canon for not stopping Samyang and Viltrox in 2022.
Instead of blaming themselves or Samyang or Viltrox. This is a situation Canon does not want.
One more thing. Not sure if an improperly coded rom pin connector on a rogue lens - can damage the electronics in your camera body.
Once fitted on the camera body and the power turned on, everything is connected.
Canon had acted against South Korea's Samyang and China's Viltrox. Foreign companies.
Canon action generated much negative publicity from independent YouTube camera reviewers.
Those YouTube reviewers who are official Canon ambassadors will not dare to object. They are silent.
Canon is taking a risk with this action.
Why is Canon taking this risk?
When you take a risk, there must be some possible beneficial outcome that makes the risk worth taking.
Canon feels confident of its market share and expect this action will not turn (most) potential buyers away from Canon brand.
A minority of potential buyers may reject Canon because of this.
Canon has explained that the electronics of its RF mount is a work in progress. That means it is subject to future changes.
One scenario is buyers of Samyang and Viltrox lenses find their lenses cannot function or lose some capabilities after a future Canon firmware update.
If Canon did not stop Samyang and Viltrox NOW, then 10 years later in 2032 owners of such 3rd party lenses may kick up a storm.
Those owners unreasonably blame Canon for not stopping Samyang and Viltrox in 2022.
Instead of blaming themselves or Samyang or Viltrox. This is a situation Canon does not want.
One more thing. Not sure if an improperly coded rom pin connector on a rogue lens - can damage the electronics in your camera body.
Once fitted on the camera body and the power turned on, everything is connected.
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Good news for those looking for RF mount 3rd party lenses from Sigma.
At least Sigma CEO did not rule it out completely. Which means the path is open.
Currently he cannot reply in affirmative.
That is for Canon to announce or for Canon+Sigma to jointly announce later on (if there is agreement).
Sigma is a Japanese 3rd party lens manufacturer.
This Japanese Sigma CEO speaks good English.
At least Sigma CEO did not rule it out completely. Which means the path is open.
Currently he cannot reply in affirmative.
That is for Canon to announce or for Canon+Sigma to jointly announce later on (if there is agreement).
Sigma is a Japanese 3rd party lens manufacturer.
This Japanese Sigma CEO speaks good English.
I am a long time canon EF lens user.
I have used many 3rd party lenses mainly Sigma and Tamron, some Tokina, but end up always return to Canon lens for future compatibility issues.
Also because there autocorrection for lens aberrations as well..
I hated other lenses because they always rotate the other way like a Nikon. This might be minor to some, but I am pissed with that.
I buy used anyway, so the L glasses are affordable.
Like in previous post, Canon made a commercial decision, just like Apple didn't license their OS to other phone manufacturers. It's their business model
I have used many 3rd party lenses mainly Sigma and Tamron, some Tokina, but end up always return to Canon lens for future compatibility issues.
Also because there autocorrection for lens aberrations as well..
I hated other lenses because they always rotate the other way like a Nikon. This might be minor to some, but I am pissed with that.
I buy used anyway, so the L glasses are affordable.
Like in previous post, Canon made a commercial decision, just like Apple didn't license their OS to other phone manufacturers. It's their business model
Why canon does not allow 3rd. party lens except cosina
( voightlander 50mm ) which is a manual focus lens. Here truth be told, is paying more than double for RF 85mm f1.2 double the quality of a sigma 85mm f1.4?
( voightlander 50mm ) which is a manual focus lens. Here truth be told, is paying more than double for RF 85mm f1.2 double the quality of a sigma 85mm f1.4?
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