Canon HF-100: NTSC or PAL?

[Tumbleweed]

I'm interested in buying the latest Canon HD camcorder HF-100 which stores video on SDHC cards. The cheapest price I got was $1626 cash with 8 GB SD card (Class 2), card reader and camera bag containing cleaning kit. This package is Canon Singapore's promotion pack. I really don't need the card reader and camera bag and the SD card Canon is giving is only Class 2 which means I cannot record at full HD.

However I found a guy selling the NTSC version, Vixia HF-100, for $1300 in the internet. Obviously there will be no local warranty for this set but the price is very tempting.

So my question is this: Will I see a difference between a PAL version and the NTSC version when both can record and playback at 1920 x 1080? With NTSC I can get 24 fps cine mode and the PAL features 25 fps cine mode.

I believe all the current full HD or HD ready flat panel TVs can display both PAL and NTSC signals. If I do buy the NTSC version, the money saved could pay for a faster SD card (Class 4 or 6) and a spare battery. What do you think?

 

[Parchiao]

Buy PAL, and ask dealsuseek.

 

[Tumbleweed]

May I know why you recommend PAL and not NTSC. And who or what is dealuseek?

 

[Parchiao]

Simply because you live in a PAL world.

Dealsuseek is a seller here on clubsnap who sells grey stuff, i checked his prices and they are quite competitive. If you are going to get an NTSC camcorder, you might as well get the PAL version from him cause your NTSC camcorder will definitley be grey stuff.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Thank you for your reply. I checked out dealuseek's website. The stuff they sell is also grey stuff. No local or international warranty.

They're selling the HF-100 for $1428 for the PAL version but I can get the grey NTSC version for $1300. Looks like I may buy the NTSC camcorder since most of my DVDs and Blu-Rays disks are NTSC. So I guess I am living in an NTSC world!

 

[lwm]

Why don't buy from pricejapan.com, which is about S$1100+ including shipping? It comes with warranty from Canon Japan, just need to pay shipping charges (I think S$100+ both ways) when send to Japan for servicing, but at least better than buying those without any warranty. I know of quite a number of folks in Singapore have bought stuff (camcorders, projectors, etc.) from them. You could get your camcorder within a day or two after you make payment.

 

[arsene]

An alternative to pricejapan will be amazon. I believe that the price can be as low as USD650. If you factor in shipping & GST, the price is no more than SGD1.1k. It comes with US warranty only and it is a NTSC set of course.

For reasons unknown to me, the PAL version always cost more. I have done some reading myself and most claim that the PAL version is better when it comes to the pull down conversion (sometime like that).

But for a normal consumer like me, I do not find it relevant as I have a flat panel that can display both NTSC & PAL. In fact, I bought mine from Amazon at slightly more than $1k (with GST & shipping). I din buy from pricejapan as I want a cam w/o Japanese wordings on its exterior.

 

[Tumbleweed]

Thanks to everyone who responded.

I guess the jury is still out on whether NTSC or PAL is better. As far as I can see, both standards record and display 1080 so there is no loss of resolution. I am sure this are some technical differences between the two but as an amateur I would probably not notice them.

Maybe I should buy from Amazon. My only worry is the risk that the camcorder might arrive broken and I have to spend money to send it back to Amazon. But then the savings is about $500 compared to buying in Singapore with local warranty!

 

[jaegersing]

For HD, the PAL/NTSC format is less of an issue and you can work with either. I still count my PAL self lucky though when I read about all the problems people have with NTSC pulldown removal. You might want to check that aspect before deciding.

Buying from overseas carries a risk compared with buying locally. You just have to decide if the cost saving is worth the risk to you.

 

[arsene]

For items bought from Amazon, if faulty can return.

If after using a while and faulty, can either ship it back to US, or repair it at Canon Singapore for a fee. If camcorder is new, chances are repair costs should be low.

However I cannot deny that there is a risk.

 

[shojibake]

Most people would choose PAL because traditional standard definition pal has more scan lines, hence more picture than NTSC. With HD, this is less of an issue.

The other reason, is that ntsc has really annoying frame rates. which is roughly 59.94 fields per second. If you ever want to transfer that to film, the gymnastics required to fit that into 24 frames per second always results in a degradation in quality of the film. PAL on the other hand does 50 fields per second, or 25 frames per second. All that takes is to slow the playback rate by 1 frame and voila, film speed. Also 25 frames is the closest to 24 fps, and depending on whether you believe in it or not, this results in a more natural film like quality than ntsc out of the box. The cine modes of ntsc probably features some kind of pull down, which in itself is a workaround to this behaviour, because it's just to approximate 24 fps. I'd stick with the 25 fps of PAL.

But! if you ever try to do slow motion, ntsc has more temporal information. But then again how much would 5 extra frames do for you?

 

[Zplus]

I have the HF-100 PAL version. Its really compact and small. Apparently, canon decided to differentiate the PAL and NTSC version - I am sure in this age of HD, it does not matter (most full HD panels support all these formats anyway). Anyway the HF-100 is differentiated thus:
NTSC can do 24p, 30p, 60i
PAL can do 25p, 50i


Do take note that AVCHD is a real pain to edit... I used to do miniDV and it goes direct to AVI which is way easier to edit.