Can organiser dissappear with our ca$h?

[contaxable]

Yes that I must agreed that money lost can earn back. Promptpness in delivery depends on the participations number that's why I have a clause; "The organiser reserves the rights to postpone/cancel the shoot if the number of participants are not reached."

So that is an agreement when you signed up with me. I can postpone or cancel but I wont play cheat and force to impose if those wish to back out...

Quality I always believe in that and no one can doubt my models of quality.

Trust and Faithfulness, not for me to say.

As I said, I will still keep my promises to pay back those who asked for it but I have to be fair to all. I have only this much to pay back at this moment and therefore, all will have a fair share.

Yes, never doubted the term you laid forth for the shoots and workshop.

But for the workshop(s) I sign up for/assigned to, I was not informed usually about date changes. I have to discover myself. The worst experience was to discover it the night before at 9pm while the workshop was supposed to be help the next morning but no venue given. Fishy, I called and you said it was postponed. Why do I have to call to discover it was changed? If I did not check, and I happen to wait at your studio, was this how you want to make fun of me?

If you included the clause, "organiser has the right to change dates/venue/model at his whimp and fancy without any proper notice given at all." I will rest my case that I flaunt the rules. I follow rules, but I did not flaunt yours in these incidences.

Ok, bob, I know you will try pay over time, I hope you do. Remember, I followed the rules. Your rules.

 

[photostop]

Hi Bob,

Been trying to reach you but to no avail.. read through the tread and understand your woes... no worries but do give me a ringer. Thansk.

 

[eastwest]

Hi Bob,

I've just seen this thread as well. Do get in touch to let me know what the situation is.

 

[Klose]

Hi Bob,

Keep us updated will ya. Thanks

 

[MLSK]

Hi Bob,
Sad to hear that you are in such a tough situation.
Pls keep me updated on your refund arrangements too.

 

[eow]

Good to see so many csers chip in to help ...really touch...go to show that really
人间有天堂:thumbsup:

 

[lovells19]

Hi bob, sad to hear this,

Maybe you can org smaller grps at for the workshop, raising the price, I will top up for the course.

But it'll be great if you can like give us some notice.

hope it all turn out well for u

rgds

 

[Andy Ang]

I guessed we have to put you back on CS Advertisment thread. How much they cost? Perhaps we can chip in for you to kick-start first.

 

[Caspere]

Yeah. Smaller group, pay in advance, no cancellation once confirmed, higher $$$ should be ok too for me.

You knew my preference is Outdoor, studio problematic with too many people and need time to shift lights.

 

[kyo86sg]

Bobman,
u just return this person money and any others u owe..... this thread is going to make alot of people avoid dealing with u in the future. Biz is Biz, Making a lost is part of a Biz....i believe u shouldnt be having other people money on hand, if u cant deliver ur promise.

Smile man, got to make $$$ in some other way~

 

[Caspere]

Bobman,
u just return this person money and any others u owe..... this thread is going to make alot of people avoid dealing with u in the future. Biz is Biz, Making a lost is part of a Biz....i believe u shouldnt be having other people money on hand, if u cant deliver ur promise.

Smile man, got to make $$$ in some other way~

Did you read thru the thread? :think:

 

[Andy Ang]

Quite apparantly not.

 

[Bobman]

Thanks guys who understand. When I was writing my personal ranks in the middle of that night. I was tired after 3 days of wedding shoots. At the same time, I was negotiating with the agent in Prague whether I can have the workshop for 6 days (3 days shoot and 3 days holidays for them) instead of 10 days since I only can filled up 3 days of model shoot and workshop. Then I suddenly came across this thread.

After 18 hours of S.E.X. last night, put aside my personal and current situations, let me get into business on this thread to highlight some of the issues raised by Mr Contaxable.

Money

The money you paid me was for the purpose of the workshop and not a loan. The workshop is scheduled on 27 Jan 07(Saturday) to 30 Jan 07 (Monday) which is 5 days away when you started this thread.

Workshop

The first workshop you signed up was by Tobias(Swedish) Photographer, but due to some of them backout, so I had to postpone the workshop. But I did not blame them because of this, you are the one who put the blame word into it and you try to make me spell out their names so that you will be careful with them in the future dealing.(For your personal interest) Many of people know me that I won't be "2/5 Kid", I have my street code to honour that's where my so call credential is; No Betrayal.

Anyway, they have their reasons to backout, either the time schedule not right or my service not good enough, I don't blame or get angry with them. Only to be more careful in the future dealings.

As for you, I told you about the change and you are said it was alright if you can learn something from it. I gave you their website, and as a businessman don't tell me you won't look into what you signed up for? Don't tell me they aren't good enough for you. For $400, you get to learn from a photographer whose works highly accepted widewide, who publised thousands of magazines and widely subscibed. To photograph a model who can pose "Hustler", "Penthouse", "Playboy" style for you for 3 day workshop.

To make it short and more important is, this workshop is on the 27 Jan 07 (Saturday) 5 days before you wrote this thread. Did I mention anything about cancellation? Did I mention anything about postponing? No! I was at time that negotiating with the agent for shorter period of time to make this workshop work! But you ruining it, sad. Worse is it, you dare to say you don't know when is the workshop? Maybe it was you that you had forgotten the date, it was all along in the CS thread until it was last deleted.

So, you mentioned that the long wait and frustration etc etc, if that is so, why not in the first place tell me that you are no longer interested in the workshop like others and want your money back. You did not ask for cancellaton of workshop, you did not ask me for refund and now you are accusing me in this thread of something which is mostly untrue.

It is not four months without news, it is four months of waiting for the workshop to come and in between we are contacting each other about the changes and please don't say that you brought me out for dinner and help me with my situations. The fact is I waited for you to finish your work at late hours to pass me the money and together we had dinner at Joo Chiat, one of your favourites Roti Prata stall and you want me to tell you who backout the workshop.

Sticky and Thread

Sticky and Thread were deleted becasue it expires and as I mentioned earlier that this workshop will be my last and also since the 3 days are filled up. There is no point for me to put it there because, there is no more space for anyone who keen in the shoot and also to keep the forum clean. You became paranoid when you saw them disappearing without finding out the true fact. Don't forget, you are a businessman and train many low education people to make 5 figures income, you must be steady, don't panic.

Handphone Number

Besides my line was disconnected due to no payment, but did I fail to inform the participants? I even posted in CS for all to see. What's wrong with changing line every month, as long as I am able to be contacted and you are able to find me. Don't tell me everyone here has only one number for 20 years or more?

Lastly, this workshop is supposed to schedule on 27 Jan 07 (Saturday), I did not mentioned anything about cancellaton or postponement. You came in and started this thread without know what you are saying. Because of this many have decided not to attend this workshop and thus has to be cancelled.

Do you know they agreed to have a 6 days stay instead of 10 days because I already paid them the airfare? You just make me $3600 poorer, just for you information.

What is the purpose of this thread, then????

 

[contaxable]

Bob, read carefully what i read 100 times if you can. I write with a firm stance without the need to edit my post here BUT YOU KEPT EDITING YOUR POST TO COUNTER ATTACK ME.

You owe me now just money but explanation why you did not inform me whenever a workshop had been cancelled. This happened more than 6 times for your information and you have not once apologise. And btw, you did not have the courtesy to inform me most of the time. You only called me once to inform it was cancelled.

Let me reiterate: YOU DID NOT INFORM ME ABOUT CANCELLATION 5 OUT OF 6 TIMES. GOT IT?

Please give me the rest of the members' money back. Yes, it was not a loan, but a cash advance. Technically, you have no right to hang on to my cash further because 4 months of wait is way too long, and the dates kept changing. Also, you told me you were busy for wedding and so promised to call me the next day. I told you not to call since you were busy and I was busy as well. Just sms would do. You did not. Please register this in your brain. You failed to contact me the next day. I wrote this 24hrs after you failed your promise once again. Before I started this thread, I sms you one last time. You were surfing actually, but ignored my sms. How did I know you surf? Half an hour after i posted, you called me on my mobile. You were wide alert!

You are quick to collect money, but slow to return.

Please, stop blabing in here and return us the money.

Thank you.

 

[Caspere]

Partly, its the way this workshop thing is executed. You gave too much leeway to the participants when the cost-structure (models and the instructors fees and travelling costs) don't have leeway.

Next time (can talk about next time instead of going back history and find fault now, fruitless), get interests on those dates and potential costs, confirms dates confirm costs, collect money, cannot backout (even if sick, find somebody else to attend, just like movie tickets), pay the airtickets pay studio, have instructor plus model show, do the shoot, pay hotel costs pay the instructor/model (if they are alive)

In the extreme unfortunate event their flights cancelled/changed/hijacked/bombed, then we change those dates.

In the event the weather is bad, change location or change to studio. If studio on fire, put out fire and shoot. If instructor/model died in accident, then we change those dates, find new instructor/models, set new dates and shoot. Everyone else can be replaced! Backout without replacements no refund for all participants.

 

[Bobman]

Mr Contaxable, whatever is said cannot undone what has damaged. Only you and I know what we said were true, the rest are just bystanders.

The last sms me to me was, are you sure you want to return me the money, don't cloud the air? It was rather funny when you mentioned this in your sms to me. However, I did sms to the rest of the participants due to the fact that I have to refund so many of them and I have little to give. I can only part each of you only $50.00 a month. As I have more than 20 participants to refund and not forgotting my daily expenses.

This account could be raised when I earn more in my freelancing jobs. So you kindly give me your account number.

I will not entertain this to your reply anymore. Like Caspere mentioned, no use crying over split milk. What done cannot be undone. You will get your money back but I have to bear the lose you created, thanks and goodbye.

One last thing, don't bother to sms me saying sorry this or sorry that or whatever reasons. This is an act of a hypocrate. Your objective is to get your money, and you shall have them.

 

[contaxable]

Thank you, Bob, for your assurance. I will inform you my account number soon. I have quite a few accounts to pick from. Just bear with the delay if you could.

Hypocrite? Nah, it does not affect me whatever you want to call me. It's ok for me. My facts are laid out clear without edit.

Due to this pursuit, I might have affected your credibility here; I am sure with your good standing, you can earn back people's trust in no time. Very soon, you will be up and soaring with a new found avenue. I am sure you are a capable person and with your wit, you can attain what you aim for.

Interestingly, not many people outwit me so far. You are one winner. :bsmilie:

I guess I will call it quits here. Let's move on, shall we?

I wish you well.

 

[Bobman]

For those who signed up for the Swedish and the Czech Model Shoot Participants. Sorry for the inconvenience caused and thanks for those still have the trust in me. Any most thankful to the overseas participants who trust to loan me some money to refund to some pariticipants.

I have already give the full refunds to those newly signed up participants, thanks to the overseas participants again. And for those who still willing to believe in me, I will write to you very soon regarding some developments. If you are keen, you can join, if not you get your refund, it will be less than 2 months.

2 things for you to consider.

1. In February, one model will come. Photos will be send to you thru email. If you keen, you may join.

2. In March, Martin and Andrea will be coming (I think its a God Bless that they just postpone the tickets instead cancelling it). I will send the remaining participants the schedule. This time there would not be any workshop, only shooting. They will be here for only 5 days and Andrea will only shoot for 2 days.

These are the 2 things that I can do. So let me know your decision.

 

[contaxable]

To all readers and persons involved:

I would like to close this thread today as the information herein shall serve as a source for all readers to understand what had been transpired between the affected individuals and Bobman.

Truth or lie, the law shall hold.

Since the day I started this thread, I received numerous private messages, with some members in ClubSnap (forum url: http://clubsnap.com) exchanging contacts with me, willing to offer any update or information to the matter. Through the discussions, I learned many other information, none of which portrayed positively about this man. I shall refrain to disclose the shameful information here and I would like to remain neutral to those thoughts for now as I aim to be as fair as I can.

For the benefit of doubt, we hope Bobman shall honor his words to repay me and the rest whom he owed regarding the professional photography course which was supposed to involve a Swedish photographer (as an instructor), Tobias Fischer, which had a projected course date to be only held on the month of October in the year 2006. Subsequent projected, non-agreed postponment of dates were all unfulfilled as Bobman failed, as an organiser, to honor his words and dates. Many of the workshops he promised were walkovers without a single notice - be it hand written, verbal, electronic messaging or sign language.

Currently, I have yet to receive repayment or repayment advice from Bobman. In the event Bobman failed to receive my telephony text messaging dated 05 Feb 2007 at 2237hr, containing my bank account information, I shall indicate the account number herein - as a bold record - in anticipation for repayment from Bobman. I am taking a bold step to assume he could read as he had not replied to my numerous messages thus far for the past one month (again).

My account information is as follows.
POSB Account Number: 083 85419 7

To repay $50 a month over a period of 8 months is totally not acceptable. And by the way, he there was no notice he produced the first $50 for the first month. I did not withdraw from Bobman's projected course date in Oct 2006; it was a walkover without a single notice. On a serious note, he may be treading on thin ice as he not only tried to avoid paying my money back, i realised he also changed the workshop posting information about the said course. So tricky was he that he changed workshop title, earased participants names (with mine inclusive) who paid him money in those posting and closed the thread with a completely new look. Or he might have conveniently deleted the entire thread. His so called thread T&C remains invalid as he tampered with information which involved money.

In one of his final few postings in this thread, he mentioned he owed over 20 people money for a workshop. Hypothetically, a quick calculation revealed an estimated 25 people x S$400 = S$10,000 cash. It is uncertain till date, that after this thread was created, if many people had received payment by Bobman for the full amount owed. And by the way, those money were cash deposit which was not meant as a source to support his livelihood.

I hope Bobman would repay me soon. It would not be a fair excuse for Bobman to claim he had used up my deposit money, being $400 Singapore Dollars, and over 20 other participants' deposit money (so he claimed) for other intent or payment towards personal expenses or lifestyle or making up in an assumed failed venture.

For Bobman to blame me for causing his loss(es) through one thread here is unjustified as I am only an individual who chose to opt out from this unending course chase after 4 months without any confirmation on information. He had his other supporters to fund the said course (or a future course) and to replace me would be easy to do without suffering a huge monetary loss by him. (As an illustration for numeric hypothetical reasoning: S$10,000 - $400 = $9,600 remaining balance to conduct another course). Since I had resigned from the endless wait, I am currently focussed in recovering the deposit which Bobman so promised in return as soon as possible. Honestly, S$400 was my hard earned cash which I could choose to use for other meaningful purpose(s).

As I shall be creating a new thread to keep everyone posted, I am closing this thread in the hope to preserve the information herein - with the above correspondences as evidence. I hope the moderators will support me and other affected members here in Clubsnap by not deleting this thread.

I certainly hope to close this chapter peacefully soon. My current intent is not to raise the matter to the authorities yet. However, this shall not stop another victim or myself to pursue the case where it deems fit in the future.

I would like to thank many members here who contributed in the thread, with Bobman inclusive, and for those kind people who corresponded with me with information about the said individual. Also, a kind note of thanks to the moderators here for bearing with me on this matter.

I wish everyone a Happy New Year and may prosperity and good health be with you all.

This thread is hereby closed.

Thank you.

Contaxable