BW Slide developement using Ilford method

[kgston]

Hmmm, not sure how many of you guys have tried following the Ilford guide to BW slide development. I do understand that getting the reagents reuqired for the task is a big issue.

Anyways, I just tried it out today... Not very successful though.. My slides came out blank, just like you fix your film without developing, totally clear, not even the film markings.. Not sure if any of you guys can help answer some of my questions...

Basically, I followed the steps listed in the Ilford BW slide guide and everything went well up till the second exposure. After soaking in the clearing solution, the half baked slides turned out well.. at least for one of the 2 rolls. The first roll of Pan F was quite clear and even the film wordings also quite faint.. but the other roll of Delta 100 (yes, I developed 2 rolls at once..) turned out well.. I think the Pan F one was cos I added too much thiosulphate. I added 12g to 600ml when it was supposed to be to a liter.. Need some confirmation on this..

The part which I think went wrong was the second exposure.. Where you have to fully fog the film to redevelop it. The guide states 100w bulb or tube at 30cm for 1 min. I didn't know how many W my toilet bulb produces so I just took a chair and just hold the film up to it. (I did remove it from the reel) But I could not tell if it had been fully fogged. All I saw was outline of the image (part creamy part clear) and the film markings being quite prominient.

After that I put back into the reel and continue with the second development, but lol and behold, when I poured out the second developer, the liquid was like blackish grey.. At first I though it was normal, but thinking back.. it was as if the developer was washing off the images?!?! I believe the blackish grey thing was the silver halide.. I didn't know at that time and went on with fixing. After fixing, well.. to my horror.. the film came out totally clear... gah!!

So what I really wanna know is was this due to the lack of fogging on the second exposure or was it due to something else? I doubt the extra thiosulphate I added at the beginning with the developer during the first developement was the cause.. Anyone can shed some light??

For those curious abt the guide, its here

 

[zk-diq]

I use kodak Bleach-Reversal process. That was 1975. No knowledge in Ilford process, however the basic is the same,
1. 1st development
2. SB
3. Bleach
4 Clearing Bah
5. wash
6. Re-expose
7. 1st fix
8. wash
9. 2nd development
10. SB
11 2nd Fixer bath
12 Rinse

If you use the wrong fixer for step 7, you get blank. after step 4 can operate in room light.
and have visual with your neg image. Re expose time is about 30 second.

Too long ago, that is all I can remember. (my is sheet film)

 

[kgston]

That's interesting..because for Ilford, after the re expose, develop first then fix while your method is fix first then develop. hmmm or maybe i accidentally contaminate my developer with fixer.. could be a possibility... cos i dun have enuf beakers and reuse them to mix chemicals.. I'll try the same process again with tmax 100 this time...hopefully it work...lols.. and i'll use a fixed beaker for developer and fixer.. lols.. what a waste of reagent.. its damn hard to find those stuff... one of them especially...

 

[zk-diq]

The 1st fixing bath is different from the 2nd fixing bath.

 

[kgston]

Yay!!! Managed to succesfully develop a roll of Tmax 100 into BW slides.. will post some pics up later tonight.. the blacks look abit thin in my opinion maybe I should cut the developing time to 11 instead of 12mins...

 

[kgston]

And the proof of concept:

 

[zk-diq]

And the proof of concept:

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[kgston]

ahhh.. had another failure today.. I tried developing a roll of 120 PanF 50.. Things went very well till the second development. After pouring out the second developer, I stated pouring in water to wash it. but the water that came out was greyish and you could see bits of emulsion floating out.. So I opened the tank and lo and behold, the emulsion was so soft it literally was slipping off the base!! It developed great though, the parts which still held on to the base was perfect, but the rest was peeling off the base. Basically, I need some advise on how to prevent the emulsion from getting so soft and slipping off.

I came up with several theories, but not too sure if it makes any sense.. Firstly, it could be the bleach was too strong? But I doubt it was the case, because when I took the film out for second exposure, the emulsion was perfectly fine. It was only after the second development the emulsion started peeling. Secondly it could be the temperature of the bleach. I read up that the warmer the bleach the more damage the emulsion takes. I didn't really pull the temp for the bleach to 20 deg so it could be the case; was around 23 deg. It also could be the temperature of the water for the rest of the things, as I only kept the developer at 20 deg while the rest was at room temp. Apart from fixing the variables is there any other way to strengthen the emulsion before the second development? I thought of drying the film completely after the second exposure by using a hair dryer before the second developer. Not too sure if a dry emulsion will be stronger though..

 

[kgston]

Ohh btw i highly recommend reading this document if you are interesed in BW slide development.. Very detailed and practical with an informative section on its background..It just released a few days ago.. haha

 

[zk-diq]

Ohh btw i highly recommend reading this document if you are interesed in BW slide development.. Very detailed and practical with an informative section on its background..It just released a few days ago.. haha

forget to ask you, what is your density range with your bw slide?

 

[kgston]

forget to ask you, what is your density range with your bw slide?

Tmax was rather poor I must admit.. Wasn't very dense and the graduation in tonalities was rubbish. As for the failed PanF 50. It was very good, at least with that little that remained on the base. The blacks looked quite dense with good gradation over different shades of grey. I cannot tell you exactly what is the Dmax though.. no fancy equipment to test that.. Probably need one of those Dmax test strips to do a side by side comparison. But even before that, I need to get the slides out of the tank in once piece first, then the quality can be compared.

It should also be noted that Ilford's emulsion is a lot less robust than Kodak's.. I'll try to reduce the power of the bleach with less permanganate and a lower the temp to 18deg. Hopefully the emulsion wun disintegrate this time. I might also replace the wash after second developer with a stop bath, then straight to fixer.

Btw, do you know where I can get a weighing scale which can differentiate up to 0.1g?

 

[zk-diq]

Tmax was rather poor I must admit.. Wasn't very dense and the graduation in tonalities was rubbish. As for the failed PanF 50. It was very good, at least with that little that remained on the base. The blacks looked quite dense with good gradation over different shades of grey. I cannot tell you exactly what is the Dmax though.. no fancy equipment to test that.. Probably need one of those Dmax test strips to do a side by side comparison. But even before that, I need to get the slides out of the tank in once piece first, then the quality can be compared.

It should also be noted that Ilford's emulsion is a lot less robust than Kodak's.. I'll try to reduce the power of the bleach with less permanganate and a lower the temp to 18deg. Hopefully the emulsion wun disintegrate this time. I might also replace the wash after second developer with a stop bath, then straight to fixer.

Btw, do you know where I can get a weighing scale which can differentiate up to 0.1g?

That is what I though. You need to add some hardener in your fixer or use fixer with harddener. Electronic scale. Pawn shop usually use. Hee hee. Accuracy to 0.01 gm.

 

[kgston]

That is what I though. You need to add some hardener in your fixer or use fixer with harddener. Electronic scale. Pawn shop usually use. Hee hee. Accuracy to 0.01 gm.

Yea.. my thoughts too.. But the problem is hardener now not in fashion le.. no one use them anymore.. will try asking ruby.. but I highly doubt they have. Can I just add white vinegar (acetic acid) into the fixer to act as a hardener? But another worry is whether I can reach the fixer stage before the emulsion disintegrates.. no point using hardener if the emulsion is gone before i pour the fixer in.. haha

 

[zk-diq]

That's interesting..because for Ilford, after the re expose, develop first then fix while your method is fix first then develop. hmmm or maybe i accidentally contaminate my developer with fixer.. could be a possibility... cos i dun have enuf beakers and reuse them to mix chemicals.. I'll try the same process again with tmax 100 this time...hopefully it work...lols.. and i'll use a fixed beaker for developer and fixer.. lols.. what a waste of reagent.. its damn hard to find those stuff... one of them especially...

you may try add 10 gm of potassium Alum to 1 litres water after 1st dev, sock for 1 min and rinse with water, but must try out. long time dont play with all this.

 

[kgston]

you may try add 10 gm of potassium Alum to 1 litres water after 1st dev, sock for 1 min and rinse with water, but must try out. long time dont play with all this.

wa! more weird chemicals to source.. hahaha.. If i'm not wrong this works as a hardener right? Just to reconfirm, after hardening, can the film still continue to be developed? As in, it won't affect the rest of the steps?

 

[zk-diq]

wa! more weird chemicals to source.. hahaha.. If i'm not wrong this works as a hardener right? Just to reconfirm, after hardening, can the film still continue to be developed? As in, it won't affect the rest of the steps?

This is usually add in fixer for hardening purpose std for Kodak F5 fixing bath.

potassium chrome Alum also can be used.

one oz to 1 gallon for pre hardening. before you develop your film. But this is fo E4 process, well still can work with bw instead of Ektachrome X.

you have to try it out. No warranty/at your own risk. I have been a number of years in cinema slide production, 2 x 3 inch glass plate, colour dye transfer / bw tone and text display, with the same chemical.

 

[kgston]

Success! Finally manage to develop a roll of PanF 50 slides!! haha.. didn't need the hardener after all.. seems like shorter bleaching with less bleach and constant water temp at 20 deg worked wonders..

So far the graduations and tonalities looks good.. will have to scan then can confirm.. will post up some scans when i got the time..

 

[zk-diq]

Success! Finally manage to develop a roll of PanF 50 slides!! haha.. didn't need the hardener after all.. seems like shorter bleaching with less bleach and constant water temp at 20 deg worked wonders..

So far the graduations and tonalities looks good.. will have to scan then can confirm.. will post up some scans when i got the time..

haha,

you process any thing higher then 25c must use pre hardening.

 

[kgston]

Some photos:

Not bad really, but not perfect either.. There is still quite a bit of dust sticking on the emulsion when I remove the film to expose to light, maybe will soak in photoflo first... and the highlights is like not v clear.. dunno if its exposed too long to light already or is the bleach not long enough or is not enough silver solvent.. especially evident in the film name and the numbering; supposed to very clear, here its quite faint leh.. any ideas zk-diq?

But I must add, the grain is like super fine.. like its almost not there..haha

 

[theITguy]

Scanned using Nikon 9000? Looks good