Another newbie's indecision over D70s and 30D

[Deadpoet]

First, to deadpoet's comments, I do happen to run my own little events business, so paying for the camera either from my pockets or the company's pockets, it's still from the same pair of pants. The reason why I figure a DSLR will be good for my work too is that, sometimes, there are just clients who do not have the budget to fork for a photographer. Being good vendors, you try to help them capture the memory of the exhibition, but you just can't shoot the whole facade of an exhibition booth with only 2.5-3 metres of clearance with a compact camera (either the booth can't fit into frame, or the details are lost at the furthest end). I am all in for providing the best value for my clients. Besides, I do like to take pictures.

You will be amaze what a PnS can do, especially if you can mount an external flash on it. If the client cannot affort a photographer, then they cannot. Best value is to take a medium format with a digital back to take the picture but give it to the client free of charge, now that is value, and that is dumb. You are just taking a few snap shot of the exhibition, so, what's wrong with a PnS.

So, you like to take pictures too, but do you like it enough to be spending that much money on it? I know too many people who claims that they like to take picture too, but do they take enough picture, do they love photography enough to justify spending thousands of dollars?

 

[TechMage]

You will be amaze what a PnS can do, especially if you can mount an external flash on it. If the client cannot affort a photographer, then they cannot. Best value is to take a medium format with a digital back to take the picture but give it to the client free of charge, now that is value, and that is dumb. You are just taking a few snap shot of the exhibition, so, what's wrong with a PnS.

So, you like to take pictures too, but do you like it enough to be spending that much money on it? I know too many people who claims that they like to take picture too, but do they take enough picture, do they love photography enough to justify spending thousands of dollars?

We here all will agree with DP about what PnS camera can do nowadays.
Our recent outing with PnS comfirmed that. How big of a print are you going to do?
If you don't even print more than 4x6 print, modern PnS can do the as well and cheaper (capital cost).

 

[joseph.lwl]

We here all will agree with DP about what PnS camera can do nowadays.
Our recent outing with PnS comfirmed that. How big of a print are you going to do?
If you don't even print more than 4x6 print, modern PnS can do the as well and cheaper (capital cost).

I have to agree to the point about the capabilities of PnS these days. My Canon A95 served me well and good. Had a lot of good times PnS-ing around with it, but I don't think I can mount as external flash like the Canon "G" or "S" prosumers.

I normally do not print my personal pictures, though the largest I have tried to print on printer is 21" x 30" (the result was ok) . However, in the course of work, some pictures may be used for future prints on 2000x800mm banners or even larger stickers. It's always better to have appropriate stock in hand in case some clients have some ideas they want to explore.

Thanks and cheers!

 

[TrailsofLife]

Go for nikon......


just kidding.....


You have written so much about your expectations and considerations, now....you know what you want....just go down to any reputable shop and try both and see what you like.

But 1 advice, shut the shop assistant up, dun listen to any advice. Dun be influence by them, because they only sell what they want to sell and they are damn good at that. Just judge for yourself which camera you like best.

 

[Zplus]

From your description, all 3 cameras would meet your needs. You dont need fast fps also. So even the 350d or D50 would suffice.

How would i describe shooting with a canon??... Exhilirating!

If you check out here:
http://www.sportsshooter.com/
You'd see lots of canon users.

Go to any fashion show and chances are, you'd get canon.

Go to any press agency and its mostly canon too.....

But I also have good experience with Nikon marketing when I needed their help.

Just be nice and they are usually helpful.:thumbsup:

 

[TrailsofLife]

You will be amaze what a PnS can do, especially if you can mount an external flash on it. If the client cannot affort a photographer, then they cannot. Best value is to take a medium format with a digital back to take the picture but give it to the client free of charge, now that is value, and that is dumb. You are just taking a few snap shot of the exhibition, so, what's wrong with a PnS.

I tend to agree with DP about this point.

Also, dun think too hard and brainf**k yourself. I know alot of pros use PnS to shoot and spy during trade fairs and exhibition. Result is very good for record shots!

 

[syke]

Definitely a 30d over d70s. Why is the d70s even included for consideration?:dunno:
However if its 30d or d200, thats a different story..:think: something to seriously ponder over.

 

[JediForce4ever]

Also not to forget that the 8.2mp of the 30D gives you more space for cropping without loosing too much details.
USM lenses on a 20D can also focus faster than AF-S lenses on a D70S.
Moreover, SWM aint present on too much of the Nikkors.

The photos out of a 30D gives warmer colors while the photos out of the D70 gives cooler colors.

Who knows, you might also need 5fps for sports/ action photography.

the memory buffer on the 30D is also faster and bigger

AF on the 30D is also faster than the D70,

CMOS on the 30d gives less dust problems than CCD

However, the D70 is lighter than the 30D

And has on-demand grid lines to help you level you photo better.

All the views given are from a CanonGrapher's POV and it might be an unfair comparison

 

[AhSeng]

My last issue with Canon 30D is that Canon lenses are perceived to be generally more expensive. Although it is understandable that you’re buying nothing but the best if you’re buying into either Canon or Nikkor lenses, I believe the affordability of the lenses is still a critical issue for me. Especially if the situation is, e.g. Canon EF “xx”-“xx”mm f2.8 IS USM vs. Nikkor AF-S “xx”-“xx”mm f2.8 VR DX, where the Canon cost S$800 more than a Nikkor with all specs being equal. (Ok, I know, don’t dabble with photography if S$800 puts you off, haha…)

Edit/Delete Message

I think you have not done your research right. Nikon lenses are by far more expensive than the Canon in equivalent FOV and F-stops.

Nikon - AF-S 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED - TCW $2550
Canon - EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM - TCW $2,250

Nikon - AF-S VR 70-200mm f/2.8G IF ED - TCW $2880
Canon - EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM TCW $2,800++

The above prices are gotten from the price list in each forum. there is no cost advantage for Nikon lenses at all. You could get cheaper lens in Hongkong. http://www.ygdragon.net/index.php BTW, canon offers 1 year international warranty for their lens so it doesn't really matter where you buy it from.

Canon L lens holds its value very well. You might wanna spend the additional money you save over the body for good glass. If you are going for 10mm in APS format, the EFS-10-22 is the best there is (read the reviews). It is a hidden L. Good resale value too for a Non L lens. You can check it out at the BnS forum. Almost every 10-22 that is posted is grabbed up in no time.

Back to the recommendation of the bodies. I suggest you might wanna try the 350D plus grip. Invest in lens, not bodies. With a Canon sensor, you can gain a 1 stop advantage over the Nikon. Since you've done your research, you should know how much savings one can have when buying a lens 1 stop slower unless you require the background blur effect of the faster lens. On the other hand, when you requre such effects, one would in most cases switch out the Zooms for the primes.

 

[JediForce4ever]

My last issue with Canon 30D is that Canon lenses are perceived to be generally more expensive. Although it is understandable that you’re buying nothing but the best if you’re buying into either Canon or Nikkor lenses, I believe the affordability of the lenses is still a critical issue for me. Especially if the situation is, e.g. Canon EF “xx”-“xx”mm f2.8 IS USM vs. Nikkor AF-S “xx”-“xx”mm f2.8 VR DX, where the Canon cost S$800 more than a Nikkor with all specs being equal. (Ok, I know, don’t dabble with photography if S$800 puts you off, haha…)

Actually, who cares about the price of the Nikkors if you are using a Canon body.
You mean you gonna jump ship if the Lens is cheaper?
Any specific lens that you are targeting and the price is so much different between the two brands while the specs are the same?
Again, if you are using Canon body, you wont care so much of the Nikkor lens price, because if you jump ship, you will loose more money in the end..

 

[miniUltraman]

:sweat: I am like you.. researching and considering D70s vs 350D (not even 20D at that time) for months and months... And here I am, a very happy owner of 30D... Superb camera... never look back!!! and cheers to all the canonians here :thumbsup: :thumbsup: upz upz!!

 

[sidder]

Hi, I too was involved in this self dilema of choosing between Canon and a Nikon system.

At that time i was comparing a more similar choice from both camps. the 350D and the D70s.

Canon: I used a Canon EOS film system before in my CCA in JC and i find that Canon's camera bodies are very well built in terms of useability and its functions. It has a much more intuitive button system. Second is its lenses it has to offer. Canon has i guess one of the largest lens range to fit for every budget, user level and purpose. The lenses that offer the lightning fast USM is by now the fastest i have seen. Canon were the ones to pioneer this technology breakthrough in focusing speed. Now we have Nikon's version and also Sigma's version(HSM). But how many lenses in their range utilises this? I believe Canon use its USM relatively extensive over its variety of lenses. Canon has also a very good After-sales service support. The EOS system is a very workable and very easily used by both beginner and pro photographers.

Nikon: Nikon's camera bodies are very very well built. In some ways, Nikon's body could have a slight edge over Canon's bodies. However, some buttons are not very well place for quick access as you shoot. However their quantity of functions is a slight edge over Canon's. (i was impress by the more choices of ISO speeds in the D70s vs the 350D). Nikon D70s has a more better focusing cross hair than Canon's(i like the centre weighted marking). Nikon's lens are also quite good in their own merits. But its focusing is slow. And sad to say Nikon's lenses are in fact expensive.

In the end you've got to see which variety of lenses suits your preference and style of photography. I personlly like Canon's USM and its L lens range. Its just a heavenly-blessed combination. ITs so workable in my work that i just allows me to get the best pics out of my camera. I have tried before friends Nikon system and Pentax ones, it just did not work out in my works. Its akin to a drawing artist who is so used to a certain inventory of brushes and poster colours and if he use another similar set of a different brand, the inspiration unconsciously changes. So would the final masterpiece.

Again another flaming thread. I agree. In the end i am a Canongrapher.

 

[joseph.lwl]

For those who just bought the 30D kit, can anyone comment on how is the kit lens?

Thanks for relating your experiences while choosing the 30D and all the comparative posts. It has been really helpful.

Some of you may be wondering why I choose to compare D70s and 30D. Actually, the reason is that D70s and 30D are the two cameras that I felt were within my budget and they felt "right" after I handled them in a shop (also tried the D50 and 350D as well).

If I would have compare 30D with D200, it would be 30D as D200 is out of my budget range to begin with.

Cheers and Thanks.

 

[shinken]

Joseph, you have brought up the issue of budget several times already. If budget is a serious consideration, get the D70s. In fact, I would recommend you to get a 2nd hand D70. Especially now that you're asking about the kit lens, I personally feel that the D70s outfit (with the kit lens) has better optics than the 30D kit lens.

For the uninitiated, please don't take it personally that I'm a Nikon troll. I'm a Canon user who feel that both systems has its merits in different ways, and Joseph, despite his attempts to be elaborate about his needs, does not seem to know the most important criteria for making the decision. Thus, in terms of technicalities, there's only so much to help. It really seems that at this point, a PnS would serve your needs best. In terms of ISO (Canon), budget (D70s), print size (Canon), decide which is most important. Otherwise, you'll keep chasing your own tail as each system has its merits.

 

[contaxable]

Hi, I am quite new to this forum. Just hope to comment based on the somewhat similar dilema i went through.

To Joseph,
Both brands have their own merits. A tough choice indeed and sometimes, i feel that the comparison is not quite be apple to apple.

I chose a 30D - the bright side (which is the opposite of dark side?). Reason was because i had some old prime lenses to play with.

Both D70s and 30D are good choices. I guess one of your intentions is also to have fun with DSLR during your leisure time. Two birds with one stone perhaps. But just be prepared to lug around a DSLR for work during your events. Or be prepared to have your staff use it when you are busy.

As for equipment obselence, it does not really matter since both models can serve your basic needs for at least the next few years.

Decide on the focal length you shall be needing; narrow in to find out their pricing of zoom lenses between the two brands (Eg 17-85canon vs 18-70nikkor). Again be mindfull these are not apple to apple comparisons. Maybe this can help you with better budgeting.

In any case, I hope you are able to find what you heart is telling you. Go for it and don't look back.

Cheers

 

[joseph.lwl]

Hi, I am quite new to this forum. Just hope to comment based on the somewhat similar dilema i went through.

To Joseph,
Both brands have their own merits. A tough choice indeed and sometimes, i feel that the comparison is not quite be apple to apple.

I chose a 30D - the bright side (which is the opposite of dark side?). Reason was because i had some old prime lenses to play with.

Both D70s and 30D are good choices. I guess one of your intentions is also to have fun with DSLR during your leisure time. Two birds with one stone perhaps. But just be prepared to lug around a DSLR for work during your events. Or be prepared to have your staff use it when you are busy.

Cheers

Thanks Contaxable, I think what you mentioned captured the essence of my motives to get a camera.

Cheers.

 

[sidder]

in my mind when shooting on my Canon: Trust.

Its fits totally to the EOS tag-line: Legacy of Trust.

 

[yanyewkay]

Actually, who cares about the price of the Nikkors if you are using a Canon body.
You mean you gonna jump ship if the Lens is cheaper?
Any specific lens that you are targeting and the price is so much different between the two brands while the specs are the same?
Again, if you are using Canon body, you wont care so much of the Nikkor lens price, because if you jump ship, you will loose more money in the end..

unless you're a bargain 2nd hand hunter like me. From B&S as a reference (i bought all my 2nd hand lenses from B&S here), the lenses I'm holding wun make any loss if I manage to sell them all. From the trend. I think I might be able to make $10-20 profit too! ;p

Major loss is on my camera body :cry: cos i bought it NEW. morale of the story: buy 2nd hand for everything.