An unfortunate incident @ Ebay

[Fallenphoenix]

Dear all,

I recently won an auction for a sigma 150mm f2.8 for AUD 570 from a reputable private seller (whom later I found out is a doctor in a private hospital in Perth). The lens seems to be lost in the delivery and the buyer seems to shrug it off his shoulder. May I know whether anyone has similar experience and manage to recover the monies from PayPal?

Cheers,
J

 

[night86mare]

fallenphoenix

discuss with the seller nicely first.

since you seem to have done that and he is shrugging it off, inform him that you are raising a dispute in the paypal resolution centre.

given the value, if i'm not wrong, the seller has to provide a signature service , i.e. a signature has to be produced to show that the lens was indeed delivered to someone. this depends on the value of the item, and you need to google yourself to see if this is correct. if not, if the value doesn't go past the amount set by ebay (based on individual currencies from country to country), then the seller only needs to produce proof of sending.

don't worry too much about it - ebay tends to side with buyers.

 

[night86mare]

read these:

http://reviews.ebay.com/Package-Didnt-Arrive-or-is-Lost-DONT-GIVE-UP_W0QQugidZ10000000001678904

just so you know, seller is liable to claim for insurance, not you:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=712195

 

[night86mare]

you can read more about paypal seller protection:

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=security/seller_protection_faq

it seems to suggest that USD250 and above needs a signature confirmation. if he can't produce it, they will credit the money back, whether he likes it or not.

 

[Fallenphoenix]

fallenphoenix

raise a dispute in ebay...

given the value, if i'm not wrong, the seller has to provide a signature service , i.e. a signature has to be produced to show that the lens was indeed delivered to someone. this depends on the value of the item, and you need to google yourself to see if this is correct. if not, if the value doesn't go past the amount set by ebay (based on individual currencies from country to country), then the seller only needs to produce proof of sending.

don't worry too much about it - ebay tends to side with buyers.

Thanks night86mare,
the seller did not opt for signature service and also lost the tracking number. i also did request for the receipt details for me to check with the post office, but he has been avoiding giving me the receipt details. my guess is that he probably used the hospital delivery posting system and thus he is unable to give me the receipt details. if it's true, it's pretty unethical of him, especially when i paid for the postage. i've checked with the post office's terms and conditions and the most 'favorable outcome' in event that the parcel is lost - reimbursement of delivery charges and AUD100 compensation max - is not favorable at all to me. I rather have the lens, even they're willing to fully compensate me. I have yet to come across a new lens of this price and is lucky to win the auction because of the country restrictions the seller placed. =(

 

[Fallenphoenix]

Thanks for pointing out the info. I was still going through the list. U saved me quite a fair bit of time

 

[Fallenphoenix]

fallenphoenix

discuss with the seller nicely first.

since you seem to have done that and he is shrugging it off, inform him that you are raising a dispute in the paypal resolution centre.

given the value, if i'm not wrong, the seller has to provide a signature service , i.e. a signature has to be produced to show that the lens was indeed delivered to someone. this depends on the value of the item, and you need to google yourself to see if this is correct. if not, if the value doesn't go past the amount set by ebay (based on individual currencies from country to country), then the seller only needs to produce proof of sending.

don't worry too much about it - ebay tends to side with buyers.

Thanks. I have done that. The seller initially thought that I was scamming off him. He claimed that there was no signature and tracking number provided, which raised an alarm and identified himself as a doctor in Perth. A quick google and paypal reference did verify his identity. I have notified him about the dispute as the protection scheme is only effective within 45 days of payment and it doesn't help that I'm moving to a new place at the moment. I did told him that a signature is required and the PO should ve the record on who have signed it off. He said he verified with the PO and it wasn't the case. However, signature has been required thus far with my experience in Melb. I did check with the PO and found that he did open a case with PO. Sadly, PO would only communicate to him, the sender, and not me. Hence, I'm in the dark.

 

[night86mare]

Thanks night86mare,
the seller did not opt for signature service and also lost the tracking number. i also did request for the receipt details for me to check with the post office, but he has been avoiding giving me the receipt details. my guess is that he probably used the hospital delivery posting system and thus he is unable to give me the receipt details. if it's true, it's pretty unethical of him, especially when i paid for the postage. i've checked with the post office's terms and conditions and the most 'favorable outcome' in event that the parcel is lost - reimbursement of delivery charges and AUD100 compensation max - is not favorable at all to me. I rather have the lens, even they're willing to fully compensate me. I have yet to come across a new lens of this price and is lucky to win the auction because of the country restrictions the seller placed. =(

that's his problem, not yours.

in any case, for such an expensive item, he should be insuring it and passing on the cost to you. i have made quite a few sales while i was in london, and i made sure that this was the case, so that both parties would be happy in the case of an unhappy event.

onus is on HIM to reimburse you, before pursuing claims with postal company. and i would do that, if that had happened if i was the seller.

 

[night86mare]

Thanks. I have done that. The seller initially thought that I was scamming off him. He claimed that there was no signature and tracking number provided, which raised an alarm and identified himself as a doctor in Perth. A quick google and paypal reference did verify his identity. I have notified him about the dispute as the protection scheme is only effective within 45 days of payment and it doesn't help that I'm moving to a new place at the moment. I did told him that a signature is required and the PO should ve the record on who have signed it off. He said he verified with the PO and it wasn't the case. However, signature has been required thus far with my experience in Melb. I did check with the PO and found that he did open a case with PO. Sadly, PO would only communicate to him, the sender, and not me. Hence, I'm in the dark.

no signature and tracking number provided? means he didn't do what was required by paypal for seller protection. even if the local PO doesn't provide such service, UPS, FEDEX, and a number of other postal services definitely have such schemes for him to cover himself.

if you really have not received the item, i suggest that you don't show any sympathy, if he is silly enough not to have read the fine print, then he should be burnt. same goes for any buyer who hasn't read the T&C for paypal buyer protection.

he will just end up losing the lens (and any value it had) , i guess. that's life.

 

[Fallenphoenix]

no signature and tracking number provided? means he didn't do what was required by paypal for seller protection. even if the local PO doesn't provide such service, UPS, FEDEX, and a number of other postal services definitely have such schemes for him to cover himself.

if you really have not received the item, i suggest that you don't show any sympathy, if he is silly enough not to have read the fine print, then he should be burnt. same goes for any buyer who hasn't read the T&C for paypal buyer protection.

he will just end up losing the lens (and any value it had) , i guess. that's life.

i wasn't really keen about costly ebay purchase in the past till i knew about the buyer protection by paypal. it did puzzle me a fair bit. he claims that he thinks the lens didn't justify the insurance cover because of the low profit margin. given his status and the postage that i paid, saving these few pennies doesn't add up. my initial fear that he was a con is because he's selling a brand new lens without warranty and it has not been opened. it's also a few yrs old. my housemate's best guess that it was an unwanted gift.

 

[Jerry Chan]

Logged into your paypal account, go to the resolution center and lodge a dispute for not received of the said item. If the correspondences between you and seller break downs and to no avail. Then escalate it to a claim against the seller, for a full refund. Paypal will do their investigations and come to a conclusion, usual case is for the buyer, will get back full refund, including postage costs. Just need to wait for the outcome. If paypal requires you to provide the details of email, then attach the email exchanges with the seller to paypal.

Sometimes, the seller will escalate to paypal first and lodge a defence, claiming evidence that item was indeed sent out, but unfortunately, post office cannot help him, he suffered a lost of the item too. For this case, at the end, the buyer still got back a full refund for the monies he paid.

 

[Fallenphoenix]

Logged into your paypal account, go to the resolution center and lodge a dispute for not received of the said item. If the correspondences between you and seller break downs and to no avail. Then escalate it to a claim against the seller, for a full refund. Paypal will do their investigations and come to a conclusion, usual case is for the buyer, will get back full refund, including postage costs. Just need to wait for the outcome. If paypal requires you to provide the details of email, then attach the email exchanges with the seller to paypal.

Sometimes, the seller will escalate to paypal first and lodge a defence, claiming evidence that item was indeed sent out, but unfortunately, post office cannot help him, he suffered a lost of the item too. For this case, at the end, the buyer still got back a full refund for the monies he paid.

Thanks. Already done that. I have inform him on wed on my decision on reporting to paypal if I didn't receive the lens today. I should say, he remained indifferent. I guess most people, or me, would push the post office to the brim

 

[Fallenphoenix]

update

Fortunately for both of us. The lens arrived mysteriously. Post office gal is clueless on why the parcel is late. After all, she only serves at the counter. Only complain that I have is that there are some dust in the lens and some faint smudge at the rear element which I can't remove. I guess the dust will accumulate more in future, as the construction of the 150mm f2.8 seems to have a movable rear element that could introduce dust. I can see the electronic parts from the gap bet the glass and contacts.

 

[kwttan]

update

Fortunately for both of us. The lens arrived mysteriously. Post office gal is clueless on why the parcel is late. After all, she only serves at the counter. Only complain that I have is that there are some dust in the lens and some faint smudge at the rear element which I can't remove. I guess the dust will accumulate more in future, as the construction of the 150mm f2.8 seems to have a movable rear element that could introduce dust. I can see the electronic parts from the gap bet the glass and contacts.

Just curious, is the condition of the lens stated on eBay? Especially the faint smudge at rear element?

 

[Fallenphoenix]

Just curious, is the condition of the lens stated on eBay? Especially the faint smudge at rear element?

Stated new, never open. The exterior looks mint. It's AUD570, which is approx sgd740. That's about $300 cheaper based on clubsnap's price list.. I can't complain much, can I?

 

[kwttan]

Stated new, never open. The exterior looks mint. It's AUD570, which is approx sgd740. That's about $300 cheaper based on clubsnap's price list.. I can't complain much, can I?

New, never open? This type condition? :dunno:

 

[kei1309]

i'm guessing since it took so long to reach u, perhaps some unethical mail service personnel saw the lens, decided to have a go at it and that's what happened.

either that or the seller's bluffing about the part that it's "never used"

 

[Fallenphoenix]

New, never open? This type condition? :dunno:

i'm guessing since it took so long to reach u, perhaps some unethical mail service personnel saw the lens, decided to have a go at it and that's what happened.

either that or the seller's bluffing about the part that it's "never used"

The owner said he has the lens for a few yrs but never open it. I was thinking that the possibility that the smudge is indeed scar left behind after he sent it for cleaning is not high. That's my assumption based on his profession, which may account for 'never used lens' and it's a lot of work for what is seemingly 'petty' cash to him. sigma's lemon? So far, the af and the image coming out from it seems reasonable. Although I expect it to be sharper...it's not as sharp as my 35mm f2 or 12-24.
My guess is also to unethical mail personnel. 'It' probably hope that the sender did not launch an investigation and the lens would be lost in the system. Although the package bag is intact, he probably could just get a new bag from the office and pack it. The thread like smudge....i've no idea what's it...it seems like on the inside side of the real element. Even someone has a go on it...probably won't leave that there...Again, it might be on the outside, u know sometimes it's hard to tell with multicoated glasses. I've tried isopropanol to remove it. It's still there...

 

[kwttan]

The owner said he has the lens for a few yrs but never open it. I was thinking that the possibility that the smudge is indeed scar left behind after he sent it for cleaning is not high. That's my assumption based on his profession, which may account for 'never used lens' and it's a lot of work for what is seemingly 'petty' cash to him. sigma's lemon? So far, the af and the image coming out from it seems reasonable. Although I expect it to be sharper...it's not as sharp as my 35mm f2 or 12-24.
My guess is also to unethical mail personnel. 'It' probably hope that the sender did not launch an investigation and the lens would be lost in the system. Although the package bag is intact, he probably could just get a new bag from the office and pack it. The thread like smudge....i've no idea what's it...it seems like on the inside side of the real element. Even someone has a go on it...probably won't leave that there...Again, it might be on the outside, u know sometimes it's hard to tell with multicoated glasses. I've tried isopropanol to remove it. It's still there...

Hope it is not fungus? :sweat:

 

[Fallenphoenix]

Hope it is not fungus? :sweat:

I hope so....I'm not sure about the climate in perth.... Melb's and sydney re too dry to ve any