Advice for novice wedding dinner photographer

[TME]

shot 17 rolls of negatives?? Wow! How much did it cost in all, film, developing and printing fees? You must have a cupboard worth of albums, at the rate of your shooting! Imagine if you had shot your targetted 30 rolls, the cost is astronomical!!

I dun normally shoot like that lar....... but first long overseas trip mah...... somemore go to Europe so must record as much....... as it is I was not experienced and shot too conservatively...... when I returned I realised that I missed some parts of the trip...... no time to take also lar sometimes..... especially when u are hurrying like siao for the train........

Actually the film cost less than the development costs...... cos I bought Fuji ISO200 for $3 a roll and ISO400 for $3.30 a roll from CP. So total 30 rolls cost me like $96 only....... the development cost wa about $14 per roll at 4R with 1 8x12 free per roll....... so that added up to quite a bit but still affordable.......

The last time I covered an international conference, I shot 20 rolls in 3 days... was shooting almost non-sop for 8 hours a day...... very siong..... fell sick for 3 days after that...... cos I was the only photographer and no backup... and the conference had 6 parallel sessions with about 12 speakers with only 15-20 minutes each to talk...... so I was like zipping in and out of 6 ballrooms at Marina Mandarin from 8.30am to 6pm everyday for 3 days........... really almost died..... but the experience of having carte blanche to shoot at will was really cool...... this year might be involved again...... have to contact my friend to ask if he needs a photographer........ BTW I dun get paid..... I just lunch and tea....... and the grand dinner........ which I dun get to eat much as well...... But it's fun!

 

[dannynys]

Generally speaking, grain is noticable when the film is under exposed. So either the exposure should be spot on or slight over 1 stop. You wouldn't see the grain if you blow up. Looks like TME is quite experience with event taking, I don't think you will have a problem lah. I think you might have been too generous with your trigger! Hee heee.., well usually I don't like to repeat a shot unless neccessary. It will be very expensive to develop repeated shots that are so-so only. Bigger flash such as the 5600HS will be a good long term investment, you can consider the BP-200 battery pack which will make sure your flash cycle will recharge instantly.

Aperture piority is ok for most cases. The camera is set in such a way that shutterspeed is set to cater the lens focal length, so handshake is eliminated. Well, you can try rear flash sync to ensure the picture will turn up right. TTL flash function properly with Manual setting, so not to worry about flash power. :bigeyes:

 

[yeocolin]

I dun normally shoot like that lar....... but first long overseas trip mah...... somemore go to Europe so must record as much....... as it is I was not experienced and shot too conservatively...... when I returned I realised that I missed some parts of the trip...... no time to take also lar sometimes..... especially when u are hurrying like siao for the train........

Actually the film cost less than the development costs...... cos I bought Fuji ISO200 for $3 a roll and ISO400 for $3.30 a roll from CP. So total 30 rolls cost me like $96 only....... the development cost wa about $14 per roll at 4R with 1 8x12 free per roll....... so that added up to quite a bit but still affordable.......

The last time I covered an international conference, I shot 20 rolls in 3 days... was shooting almost non-sop for 8 hours a day...... very siong..... fell sick for 3 days after that...... cos I was the only photographer and no backup... and the conference had 6 parallel sessions with about 12 speakers with only 15-20 minutes each to talk...... so I was like zipping in and out of 6 ballrooms at Marina Mandarin from 8.30am to 6pm everyday for 3 days........... really almost died..... but the experience of having carte blanche to shoot at will was really cool...... this year might be involved again...... have to contact my friend to ask if he needs a photographer........ BTW I dun get paid..... I just lunch and tea....... and the grand dinner........ which I dun get to eat much as well...... But it's fun!

Its like that in Singapore. Photographers, models and all those folks involved in the arts all get paid only a tiny fraction which equivalents in the West earn. Yet, the demand for quality is no less than those of the West, except probably a bit less on the creativity side (since the local consumers and competitors are not that discerning yet). Just my personal opinion.

 

[dannynys]

I can agree with you, Colin.

Well, think of it this way. Singapore is so small but there are so many photographers aiming for the same pie. The consumer stand to gain from this fierce competition. As hard as it is to swallow this truth, it happen in every other things beside photography also. Moreover, the problem is because photographer accept the low pay. People don't really appreciate the effort put into taking photos. This is the mind set in Singapore from what i can see. The photographer still needs to pay his bills, so got to accept any offer that comes along. Price is always negotiable. :dunno:

 

[TME]

Its like that in Singapore. Photographers, models and all those folks involved in the arts all get paid only a tiny fraction which equivalents in the West earn. Yet, the demand for quality is no less than those of the West, except probably a bit less on the creativity side (since the local consumers and competitors are not that discerning yet). Just my personal opinion.

hahaha...... well I guess I can agree with u...... but hor, my case a bit special lar...... I was asked to help out...... and I volunteered also cos hor...... kekeke...... can experiment when u have carte blanche to shoot...... basically what I did was to shoot every speaker 2x. One using a conventional setting so that the shot will look ok. The other was usually just an experiment or different, curious angle...... hahaha...

So it was a good experience but it also highlighted my glaring weakness with low light photography....... very often my camera would get fooled by the bright OHP screen in the background. I also kept forgetting to spot meter when the room was really dark, and sometimes forgot to power up my flash when I was doing tele shot after a wide shot...... I guess some of the exposure boo-boos might also have to do with me using only a 505si.... a little limited the metering algorithm... noticed that when I switched over to the Dynax 7, the problem is much less.......but it still exists.....

For the conference, quality was not so crucial..... it was just for recording purposes and so as long as the photos turned out well-exposed can already........ but now this is my friend's wedding mah........ must not only have well-exposed shots but make sure that cannot cock up and miss some shots or screw up a whole roll of film..... (happens to me every now and then)........ So I came in here to ask for some sound advice as to the settings and film type to use.....

 

[TME]

Generally speaking, grain is noticable when the film is under exposed. So either the exposure should be spot on or slight over 1 stop. You wouldn't see the grain if you blow up. Looks like TME is quite experience with event taking, I don't think you will have a problem lah. I think you might have been too generous with your trigger! Hee heee.., well usually I don't like to repeat a shot unless neccessary. It will be very expensive to develop repeated shots that are so-so only. Bigger flash such as the 5600HS will be a good long term investment, you can consider the BP-200 battery pack which will make sure your flash cycle will recharge instantly.

Aperture piority is ok for most cases. The camera is set in such a way that shutterspeed is set to cater the lens focal length, so handshake is eliminated. Well, you can try rear flash sync to ensure the picture will turn up right. TTL flash function properly with Manual setting, so not to worry about flash power. :bigeyes:

The first point - does it then mean that I can go ahead and use ISO800 as long as I over-expose by 1/2 stop? I could of course rerate the ISO and then shoot without worrying about compensation all the time..... the issue is that I dun want a grainy enlargement like some 60s b&w photo........ has happened to me before when I had no choice but to shoot using ISO200... which has made me realise that 200 is way too slow for low light photography contrary to what is written on the box of the film.......

The second point - yeah thanks! I was hoping that the shutter speed does not drop too far down..... 1/60 or 1/45 would be good... As for the rear curtain flash thingy..... what do u mean?? Usually rear curtain is meant for capturing action under low light right?? Like that sure need tripod mah! Then how??

 

[arm]

Hi,

Suggest a second photographer. (Murphy's Law)

Also a good point&shoot as a 3rd backup.

Olypmus Mu is good & cheap.

Regards.

 

[dannynys]

does it then mean that I can go ahead and use ISO800 as long as I over-expose by 1/2 stop? I could of course rerate the ISO and then shoot without worrying about compensation all the time

Well, you can put it this way of 1/2 stop more. You can just put the Dynax 7 on +1/2 stop flash exposure through, no need to rerate the ISO, a bit troublesome to do it for every roll. I recommend just follow the camera setting, no need to be confused with the manipulation of setting. It will turn up ok, just concentrate more on capturing the actions during the dinner.

I was hoping that the shutter speed does not drop too far down..... 1/60 or 1/45 would be good... As for the rear curtain flash thingy..... what do u mean?? Usually rear curtain is meant for capturing action under low light right?? Like that sure need tripod mah! Then how??

Rear Flash sync is often used in action but I use it for low light condition also. It will help if there is camera shake, the picture will turn up clearer than normal sync flash. I don't have a sample pic to show you the different. Rear Flash sync will disable HSS mode of the flash, that means shutter speed will not go higher than 1/200. It's not a big issue here, because I reckon your shutter speed will be in the range of 1/45 or 1/60 during the dinner.

 

[TME]

Well, you can put it this way of 1/2 stop more. You can just put the Dynax 7 on +1/2 stop flash exposure through, no need to rerate the ISO, a bit troublesome to do it for every roll. I recommend just follow the camera setting, no need to be confused with the manipulation of setting. It will turn up ok, just concentrate more on capturing the actions during the dinner.



Rear Flash sync is often used in action but I use it for low light condition also. It will help if there is camera shake, the picture will turn up clearer than normal sync flash. I don't have a sample pic to show you the different. Rear Flash sync will disable HSS mode of the flash, that means shutter speed will not go higher than 1/200. It's not a big issue here, because I reckon your shutter speed will be in the range of 1/45 or 1/60 during the dinner.

Ah...... I see....... okie must test out the rear sync flash when shoot a test roll at home under low light.......

I also hope to follow the camera settings but I was hoping to do a little better than that.........

 

[TME]

Hi,

Suggest a second photographer. (Murphy's Law)

Also a good point&shoot as a 3rd backup.

Olypmus Mu is good & cheap.

Regards.

My backup will be a 505si plus 3500xi flash and 50mm lens...

 

[stor]

Use a bouncecard when the ceiling is too high and for large groups, you might want to consider direct flash.

Hi Zestorer

Could you advise what should be the flash setting when you use bouncecard for high ceiling or ceiling with colours? Do you set to manual, TTL or Auto mode and what compensation factor? Taking into consideration shooting 10 to 12 people on the table and using 28mm range. Thank you.

 

[TME]

Hi Zestorer

Could you advise what should be the flash setting when you use bouncecard for high ceiling or ceiling with colours? Do you set to manual, TTL or Auto mode and what compensation factor? Taking into consideration shooting 10 to 12 people on the table and using 28mm range. Thank you.

I was thinking that if we use TTL, then we do not need to compensate for the flash. Cos the flash meter reads the reflected light coming from the subject to the film plane. So although the bounce card cuts the flash power, the TTL sensor will ensure that this is compensated for by firing the flash for a longer duration. In which case, the subject should be well exposed. However, the light source is now diffused and so u have that pleasant glow rather than hotspots.

 

[Zerstorer]

Hi Zestorer

Could you advise what should be the flash setting when you use bouncecard for high ceiling or ceiling with colours? Do you set to manual, TTL or Auto mode and what compensation factor? Taking into consideration shooting 10 to 12 people on the table and using 28mm range. Thank you.

For high ceiling I will probably just use direct flash or flash with a large bouncecard in TTL mode, no compensation. For coloured ceiling, it'll depend on the colour..as long as its not too far from white or cream I will still bounce as usual.

10-12 shouldn't be an issue as long as you pack them close.

 

[Jerry]

One thing to note, flash compensation is sometimes necessary for shots where there might be a majority of whites or blacks (bright or dark subjects). TTL uses through the lens metering so the camera can get fooled too by the subjects. For eg, taking the bride (in white gown) with perhaps a whitish background ....... if you don't set +ve flash compensation, your shot might turn out underexpose. Rerating your film (400 rerated at 320 for eg) gives more room for such errors but on top of that I would also +0.5 stops of flash compensation for this particular shot.

 

[stor]

One thing to note, flash compensation is sometimes necessary for shots where there might be a majority of whites or blacks (bright or dark subjects). TTL uses through the lens metering so the camera can get fooled too by the subjects. For eg, taking the bride (in white gown) with perhaps a whitish background ....... if you don't set +ve flash compensation, your shot might turn out underexpose. Rerating your film (400 rerated at 320 for eg) gives more room for such errors but on top of that I would also +0.5 stops of flash compensation for this particular shot.

Hi Jerry, Zerstorer and TME, thank you for all the tips. It will be very useful for in shortening my test shots.

Cheers

Steven Tor

 

[TME]

One thing to note, flash compensation is sometimes necessary for shots where there might be a majority of whites or blacks (bright or dark subjects). TTL uses through the lens metering so the camera can get fooled too by the subjects. For eg, taking the bride (in white gown) with perhaps a whitish background ....... if you don't set +ve flash compensation, your shot might turn out underexpose. Rerating your film (400 rerated at 320 for eg) gives more room for such errors but on top of that I would also +0.5 stops of flash compensation for this particular shot.

Wow! This is good stuff!! Thanks! Will take note of that.....

Got to get this off my chest....... my friend is rather fair..... and with her in a white gown and her husband was is light grey blue...... their studio test shot was quiet lousy. The coloration was too neutral......... bluse gray background with a white gown and blue-grey suit... piangz....... so sianz...... not enough colour...... like that shoot in b&w beter... some more studio! Quite lousy IMO given that it was shot by a studio........ at any rate must ask her to put on some more highly coloured accessories or whatever and her husband to put on something bright, like a bright tie or pocket handkerchief... or else the shots will be very dull!