Advice for novice wedding dinner photographer

[TME]

Hi,

My friend recently asked me to take photos for her coming wedding dinner (at restaurant only). She does not need "pro" standard photos and is okay even if the photos do not look good.

But I dun want to spoil her and husband's experience (BTW, I know her husband quite well as well! We were all classmates!) so I'm humbly asking the bros here in CS for some advice.

I am getting a 5600D and a bounce card next month. I basically want sharp, well-exposed shots with a good diffused light-up from the flash. I do not use nor own any D lens.
Currently using a Dynax 7 + VC-7 with a 3500xi program flash. Intend to use the Tamron 24-135 SP f/3.5-5.6 and Minolta 50mm f/1.7 lens (which I own) together with the body. Dun intend to buy any more lens.....

Some questions to help u frame your expert advice:

1) I like to shoot at f/5.6 on A priority. Like that no need to fiddle much with the settings except for the focal length. Would the depth of field be too shallow for a dinner table shot (10 persons or so)?

2) How do I know if the bounced flash beam would light the entire group up properly without significant light fall off? Firing straight on tends to create hotspots that's why I intend to use a bounce card.

3) What is the optimal distance to stand from the subject under such low lighting conditions? (I understand from what I have experienced so far that standing too close will cause hotspots, while standing too far cause light fall-off). But I am unable to get any system of consistency.

4) Are vertical shots with the flash mounted on the hotshoe recommended? If "die die" also must have these shots, how to minimise shadowing? (basically I am keen to try out the new VC-7 grip.. )

5) Which metering mode would be best? Centre, evaluative or spot? I dun want the background to be black.

6) Would bringing a light tripod be advisable?

7) Any other points to take note of?


Thanks a lot in advance! I really need to pick your brains, especially those who are experts or experienced with such assignments! Dun want to disappoint my friend. Thanks again!

 

[YuHsuan]

My own experience with wedding dinners.

1) If you are the only photog there, bring back-up equipment, even a back-up flash. You may think your equipment will not fail, but my 5400 flash died on me during one dinner.

2) Try NOT to use direct flash, makes the bride look very unflattering. If the ceiling is low enough, and you are developing the photos not larger than 5R, try ISO 800 film and then bounce the flash. If the ceiling is high and you have to use a bounce card, then switch to manual mode and shoot at max aperture (f3.5-f4) and at 1/30 shutter speed. By lowering the shutter speed from the usual 1/60, you are increasing exposure by twice the amount. At 24 to 28mm, you can still take hand-held shots with your camera with 1/30. Any slightly over-exposed photos can be compensated during the printing.

3) Depth of field at 5.6 or even f4 is ok for 2 rows of people , one row seated and another standing. What you need to do on that night is to get some helpers to hep you arrange the people in advance. The most problematic ones are the older folks who can simply sit there and not move even when told to do so. This results in the seated row arcing in to form a semi-circle, requiring you to increase depth-of-field.

4) I'm afriad that there is no such thing as optimum distance when shooting wedding dinners. If the resturant is packed, then you would have no room to back track. 24mm should be wide enough. If you are shooting for 40 tables within a span of 1-2 hours with the bride and groom in-tow, you have to trust the camera to decide on the technical aspects and concentrate on composing the picture.

5) You forget that the 5600HS flash can be tilted sideways as well as up. If you wish to bounch for the vertical shots, tilt the flash side-ways.

6)I wouldn't bother with a tripod. You need to move fast and getting bogged down with equipment is the last thing you want.

7) Use the zone/evaluative metering for both normal shots and flash metering. The dynax 7's metering is among the best there is.

8)Remember to bring spare batteries for the camera and flash, bring plenty of film. Go early to take shots of the reception, the bride's make-up session etc. You should also switch the camera's setting from focus-priority to shutter release-priority so that you don't miss those important moments.

hope all this helps.

Hi,

My friend recently asked me to take photos for her coming wedding dinner (at restaurant only). She does not need "pro" standard photos and is okay even if the photos do not look good.

But I dun want to spoil her and husband's experience (BTW, I know her husband quite well as well! We were all classmates!) so I'm humbly asking the bros here in CS for some advice.

I am getting a 5600D and a bounce card next month. I basically want sharp, well-exposed shots with a good diffused light-up from the flash. I do not use nor own any D lens.
Currently using a Dynax 7 + VC-7 with a 3500xi program flash. Intend to use the Tamron 24-135 SP f/3.5-5.6 and Minolta 50mm f/1.7 lens (which I own) together with the body. Dun intend to buy any more lens.....

Some questions to help u frame your expert advice:

1) I like to shoot at f/5.6 on A priority. Like that no need to fiddle much with the settings except for the focal length. Would the depth of field be too shallow for a dinner table shot (10 persons or so)?

2) How do I know if the bounced flash beam would light the entire group up properly without significant light fall off? Firing straight on tends to create hotspots that's why I intend to use a bounce card.

3) What is the optimal distance to stand from the subject under such low lighting conditions? (I understand from what I have experienced so far that standing too close will cause hotspots, while standing too far cause light fall-off). But I am unable to get any system of consistency.

4) Are vertical shots with the flash mounted on the hotshoe recommended? If "die die" also must have these shots, how to minimise shadowing? (basically I am keen to try out the new VC-7 grip.. )

5) Which metering mode would be best? Centre, evaluative or spot? I dun want the background to be black.

6) Would bringing a light tripod be advisable?

7) Any other points to take note of?


Thanks a lot in advance! I really need to pick your brains, especially those who are experts or experienced with such assignments! Dun want to disappoint my friend. Thanks again!

 

[TME]

Thanks a lot YuHsuan! Very helpful answers. Some responses to what u have mentioned. Please comment on them. Thanks a lot!

1) I'll have a backup 505si body and the 3500xi program flash. I have three lens which can be used - 24-135SP f/3.5-5.6, 50mm f/1.7, 17-35mm f/2.8-4. And if things get desperate, the kit 28-80 f/3.5-5.6 (which is IMO crappy beyond words) and the 100-400 f/4.5-6.7 APO.

2) I have no experience with bounce cards. The little experience I had with the Omni Bounce was very bad as most of my shots were badly underexposed. I did not bounce the flash (3500xi) off the ceiling in that experience, but titled the flash head to reduce the power of the flash. In the end, the next occassion, I just fire the flash direct but reduced the power of the 3500xi. The shots turned out much better, with little of the irritating "caught-in-the-headlamps" look, aka hotspots.

3) Intend to use Fuji Superia 800 film. Intend also to overexpose by 2 stops that night. That is +2EV for exposure. And maybe +1.0-2.0EV for the flash since I intend to use a bounce card. How about that? All shots wil be developed to 4R first. Some selected shots might be redeveloped at 8x12, which is rather large.

4) I intend to get the people to arrange themselves in 2 rows of 5. Will f/5.6 be ok? Might get some blurring at the edges of the rows I feel. I intend to focus on the centre. Will be using the centre focus sensor only cos it is the most sensitive. Would using 800 film and a bounced flash tolerate such a magnification?

5) If the restaurant is really packed, I'll probably switch to the 17-35mm. But I hesitate the use that lens as below 19mm, there is significant barrel distortion. But if worse come to worse, I might have to use it. Also need a flash diffuser and fortunately the 5600HS has a 17mm diffuser. Should I use the diffuser in conjunction with the bounce card when my focal length is around 17-19mm?

6) Thanks for the advice on the tripod. I'll skip it completely then.

7) Ok, will use centre-weighted metering. BTW, if I intend to meter the background and depend on the 5600HS to fill out my subject, would the shots turn out reliably every time? Or will the camera get fooled occasionally to meter only for the background? My fear is that if I use evaluative or centre-weighted metering, the background may turn out, but the subject might be underexposed. Am I right to say that the Dynax 7 coupled with the 5600HS, such a scenario would seldom take place. Do I have change focus sensors in order for the subject to fill out properly? That is if hte subject is on the left of the frame, then I must one of the three left focus sensors on the Dynax 7?

8) Tilt the 5600HS sideways and up? I dun get it. I have the vertical grip, so the flash will be on the left when I shoot vertically. This means that the light will come from the left regardless whether I bounce it or not right? I know that the flash head can be tilted to face up (although it's face is now vertical and not horizontal) but in this case, will the bouncing be effective as what u have is effectively very narrow. Do I change the size of the bounce card to something narrower? Or do I leave the bounce card where it was on the flash (when I take landscape shots), and the flash shot will look ok? Cos my vertical shots with the 3500xi gives me really obvious light fall off and I'm trying to see if changing to a flash with a swivel head can solve that.

9) I will not be covering the bride's make-up, etc..... she's dosn't need that she says. And in any case, I'm not free either to do those shots. I'll be doing only the dinner. And I believe that I'll be the main photographer. There might be relatives doing their own shots using a digicam though. Hence I need only to worry about low yellow light shooting.

Right bro, that's all for now! Thanks a lot for your very helpful tips and comments and answers to my queries.

 

[YuHsuan]

You're welcome. My own $0.02 worth for the replies

Thanks a lot YuHsuan! Very helpful answers. Some responses to what u have mentioned. Please comment on them. Thanks a lot!

1) I'll have a backup 505si body and the 3500xi program flash. I have three lens which can be used - 24-135SP f/3.5-5.6, 50mm f/1.7, 17-35mm f/2.8-4. And if things get desperate, the kit 28-80 f/3.5-5.6 (which is IMO crappy beyond words) and the 100-400 f/4.5-6.7 APO.

Bring the 505 and the 3500 along. I know the kit lens is crap, but if your tamron decides to die that night, you will need it

2) I have no experience with bounce cards. The little experience I had with the Omni Bounce was very bad as most of my shots were badly underexposed. I did not bounce the flash (3500xi) off the ceiling in that experience, but titled the flash head to reduce the power of the flash. In the end, the next occassion, I just fire the flash direct but reduced the power of the 3500xi. The shots turned out much better, with little of the irritating "caught-in-the-headlamps" look, aka hotspots.

Your shots were under-exposed probably because of the 3500. It's not a very powerful flash and using it with an Omibounce probably reduced its output even further plus the tilting of the flash. My own experience with the Omnibounce, (on the 5400) without tilting, is quite favourable.

3) Intend to use Fuji Superia 800 film. Intend also to overexpose by 2 stops that night. That is +2EV for exposure. And maybe +1.0-2.0EV for the flash since I intend to use a bounce card. How about that? All shots wil be developed to 4R first. Some selected shots might be redeveloped at 8x12, which is rather large.

I wouldn't over-expose by that much. What I usually do when I use this film is to set the ISO to 640, this over-expose by a third stop. Even if you use a bounce card, leave the flash exposure as it is. Once you get the 5600, you need to trust the camera and the flash. By getting the flash to over-expose when you use a bounce card, all you are merely doing is telling the flash to give max output each time. Your batteries die faster this way as well.

If you intend to enlarge some of the shots, then perhaps you may wish to try NPH400. It's very good for skin tone and the grain is very fine.

4) I intend to get the people to arrange themselves in 2 rows of 5. Will f/5.6 be ok? Might get some blurring at the edges of the rows I feel. I intend to focus on the centre. Will be using the centre focus sensor only cos it is the most sensitive. Would using 800 film and a bounced flash tolerate such a magnification?

At f5.6, it should be ok. My own shots with my 24-105 at f4 or even at f3.5 usually gets the 2 rows in focus. The only times I get people sitting at the edges slightly blurred is when there are too many people seated.

5) If the restaurant is really packed, I'll probably switch to the 17-35mm. But I hesitate the use that lens as below 19mm, there is significant barrel distortion. But if worse come to worse, I might have to use it. Also need a flash diffuser and fortunately the 5600HS has a 17mm diffuser. Should I use the diffuser in conjunction with the bounce card when my focal length is around 17-19mm?

I agree with you here in not using the ultra-wide. An ultra-wide angle can make people took a bit fat. But you will have to look at the situation and decide, esp if the restaurant is fully packed with tables.
In a situation like this and you do have to use this lens, I would not bother with the card, and try to bounce the flash off the ceiling. Using the wide angle lens means that some of the people are going to be very near you while some will be further away. The only way to ensure that light from the flash illuminates everyone properly is send the light to the ceiling and let the ceiling spread the light around evenly. Of course, this is assuming the ceiling is low enough and it is of the right colour.

7) Ok, will use centre-weighted metering. BTW, if I intend to meter the background and depend on the 5600HS to fill out my subject, would the shots turn out reliably every time? Or will the camera get fooled occasionally to meter only for the background? My fear is that if I use evaluative or centre-weighted metering, the background may turn out, but the subject might be underexposed. Am I right to say that the Dynax 7 coupled with the 5600HS, such a scenario would seldom take place. Do I have change focus sensors in order for the subject to fill out properly? That is if hte subject is on the left of the frame, then I must one of the three left focus sensors on the Dynax 7?

I have used the 5400 and 5600, to me, the newer flash is more capable and reliable. Leave it to the camera. However, if you wish to ensure that the background is exposed properly, do an exposure check first by pressing the (AEL) button. If say you get a shutter speed reading of 1/30 or 1/20 at f3.5 with the Tamron, then obviously at normal flash-sync of 1/60, you will lose background light. I guess you will have to hold down the (AEL) button for those shots where you want the background to be exposed properly.

However, I wouldn't worry too much about the background unless you are taking photos of tables near the stage wehre the decoration is. Most of the time, you would be trying to fill the whole photo with the people at the table or to squeeze the people into the shot. The background doesn't really play a bigh part in shots like these

8) Tilt the 5600HS sideways and up? I dun get it. I have the vertical grip, so the flash will be on the left when I shoot vertically. This means that the light will come from the left regardless whether I bounce it or not right? I know that the flash head can be tilted to face up (although it's face is now vertical and not horizontal) but in this case, will the bouncing be effective as what u have is effectively very narrow. Do I change the size of the bounce card to something narrower? Or do I leave the bounce card where it was on the flash (when I take landscape shots), and the flash shot will look ok? Cos my vertical shots with the 3500xi gives me really obvious light fall off and I'm trying to see if changing to a flash with a swivel head can solve that.

When you get the 5600HS, you will know what I mean. When you tilt the flash side-ways, say pointing to the right, then if you readjust the holding of the camera for a potrait shot by tilting the camera 90 degrees to your left, the flash would then be pointing upwards for bounce off the ceiling!

BTW, the 5600's flash head can only be tilted up-down/side ways when you press the button at the side. Otherwise, it will not move (unlike your 3500 which tilts up freely). When the ceiling is low enough, the bounce is effective, even when you bounce for potrait shots by tilting the flash side-ways.

Hope my new comments clarified things better

 

[Zerstorer]

2) I have no experience with bounce cards. The little experience I had with the Omni Bounce was very bad as most of my shots were badly underexposed. I did not bounce the flash (3500xi) off the ceiling in that experience, but titled the flash head to reduce the power of the flash. In the end, the next occassion, I just fire the flash direct but reduced the power of the 3500xi. The shots turned out much better, with little of the irritating "caught-in-the-headlamps" look, aka hotspots.

The result was because your 3500 was too weak. An omnibounce will cut about 2 stops of light, which leaves you with very little working distance. In any case, I really don't recommend anyone using an omnibounce in all situations. Use a bouncecard when the ceiling is too high and for large groups, you might want to consider direct flash.

3) Intend to use Fuji Superia 800 film. Intend also to overexpose by 2 stops that night. That is +2EV for exposure. And maybe +1.0-2.0EV for the flash since I intend to use a bounce card. How about that? All shots wil be developed to 4R first. Some selected shots might be redeveloped at 8x12, which is rather large.

Do not do this.

Overexposing only reduces shadow grain, however the overall sharpness of the print may actually be degraded if carried too far. 1/3stop is usually good enough if your metering is accurate. If you can afford to overexpose by 2 stops, you would be better off using Superia 200 or NPS 160 instead.

Re-rating the film is a luxury only in good lighting, I don't recommend doing this when you are already in a low light situation.

Consider using NPH400 if you really want low grain enlargements.

4) I intend to get the people to arrange themselves in 2 rows of 5. Will f/5.6 be ok? Might get some blurring at the edges of the rows I feel. I intend to focus on the centre. Will be using the centre focus sensor only cos it is the most sensitive. Would using 800 film and a bounced flash tolerate such a magnification?

Should be ok, or you might want to step down one more stop. Always ensure that you focus on the face of the front row.

5) If the restaurant is really packed, I'll probably switch to the 17-35mm. But I hesitate the use that lens as below 19mm, there is significant barrel distortion. But if worse come to worse, I might have to use it. Also need a flash diffuser and fortunately the 5600HS has a 17mm diffuser. Should I use the diffuser in conjunction with the bounce card when my focal length is around 17-19mm?

Use the diffusor whenever you are working below 28mm to be safe. I don't think you would like the results of working below 20mm. At extreme wide angles, you must ensure that the camera level to the subject or the effects would be weird. About 24mm should be the widest you should attempt or the results may not be flattering.

7) Ok, will use centre-weighted metering. BTW, if I intend to meter the background and depend on the 5600HS to fill out my subject, would the shots turn out reliably every time? Or will the camera get fooled occasionally to meter only for the background? My fear is that if I use evaluative or centre-weighted metering, the background may turn out, but the subject might be underexposed. Am I right to say that the Dynax 7 coupled with the 5600HS, such a scenario would seldom take place. Do I have change focus sensors in order for the subject to fill out properly? That is if hte subject is on the left of the frame, then I must one of the three left focus sensors on the Dynax 7?

Just concentrate on the subject, you don't have to worry about the background in a low light situation as long as you have highspeed film.

8) Tilt the 5600HS sideways and up? I dun get it. I have the vertical grip, so the flash will be on the left when I shoot vertically. This means that the light will come from the left regardless whether I bounce it or not right? I know that the flash head can be tilted to face up (although it's face is now vertical and not horizontal) but in this case, will the bouncing be effective as what u have is effectively very narrow. Do I change the size of the bounce card to something narrower? Or do I leave the bounce card where it was on the flash (when I take landscape shots), and the flash shot will look ok? Cos my vertical shots with the 3500xi gives me really obvious light fall off and I'm trying to see if changing to a flash with a swivel head can solve that.

You don't have to worry about this too much. Verticle shots mean that you are only shooting 1 or 2 subjects. In this case, offcenter flash may actually be more flattering than straight on.

 

[TME]

Yu Hsuan and Zerstorer million thanks to u!!! Wow! It's really been a pleasure reading your posts! Really informative and with very practical advice. I feel a little more confident of my settings. At any rate, I'll be "practising" at home with yellow lights dimmed to get a better understanding of the 5600 when I get it.

As for the lens, I think the main backup to my Tamron would be the Sigma 17-35 still. Cos at 24mm, it's in the middle of the range, and that's where it peforms the best. So I think it's the best backup I have compared to the 50 or kit lens or 100-400 (which is to all intents and purposes is pretty useless).


BTW, could u advise as to cost of the following film and where I can get the best deal? I used to buy my 400 from CP when they had the World Cup offer at $3.30 per roll. Not sure if it's still that price. What about:
1) Superia 800
2) NPH 400 (never heard of it, pro film?) How's the performance in low lighting? As good as the the 800? I'm going for 800 cos it's probably going to save me a lot of headaches in the dark.....

I'm blowing up to 8 x 12 only because it's free at the labs that I use. But since it's free, then why not. Would Superia 800 give really visible grains? I usually use Superia 400 and it's perfectly fine except for some loss of sharpness since I'm using only a 35mm negative.

Thanks for the exposure tips. I like to push negatives to overexpose since it always seems to me that in low light my camera is too conservative and tends to underexpose. Now that u mention that the 3500 is really weak then it might be the root of all my underexposures.... Looks like I need a new flash in a hurry!

Thanks again! Love this place!

 

[Zerstorer]

Superia Xtra 800 is about 5.80 and NPH400 is about 6.80 if I recall correctly.

Superia 800 gives good 4Rs but if you want S8R, you might want to stick to NPH400. In any case, for large enlargements, lens quality and steady hands are critical.

You should try to find out the cause of your underexposures instead of overexposing the film blindly. There is no point buying more costly and grainy high ISO film only to overexpose it. Try shooting a test roll of slides are rated ISO and see how it goes. You need to know when the multipattern metering algorithm fails or is the camera meter faulty.

 

[Gunjack]

Try not to use new equipment that you do not have much experience with at the wedding. The 5600hs flash is wonderful but you have to test how it responds under similar conditions as the wedding dinner with your camera. It is not a time to do experiments. Use of 400 film is generally ok indoors. I have the 3500xi flash but I don't have problems of it underexposing with the omni-bonce and dynax 5. For group shots I try to limit myself to 28mm max widest to prevent distortion and missing flash coverage. I have a ADI flash and lense and they seem to work very well together.

Actually, don't forget to ask what is going to happen there and where will it happen. Need to plan first what and who you gonna shoot. Most of the time you would be too busy concentrating on the event that you do not have much time to even think or change whatever settings you have, especially for your first time.

 

[TME]

Superia Xtra 800 is about 5.80 and NPH400 is about 6.80 if I recall correctly.

Superia 800 gives good 4Rs but if you want S8R, you might want to stick to NPH400. In any case, for large enlargements, lens quality and steady hands are critical.

You should try to find out the cause of your underexposures instead of overexposing the film blindly. There is no point buying more costly and grainy high ISO film only to overexpose it. Try shooting a test roll of slides are rated ISO and see how it goes. You need to know when the multipattern metering algorithm fails or is the camera meter faulty.

Thanks! I intend to buy a roll of Superia 800 and test it out......

As for the slide thingy..... I dun quite get what u mean. Do u mean to say take a roll of slide film and shoot without doing any compensation whatsoever in the conditions that I will be shooting in later? Then take a look at how the camera actually meters? I suppose that for slides, the photolab cannot tweak its development? In any case, I am a total novice to slide film, never used it before.

 

[Zerstorer]

Thanks! I intend to buy a roll of Superia 800 and test it out......

As for the slide thingy..... I dun quite get what u mean. Do u mean to say take a roll of slide film and shoot without doing any compensation whatsoever in the conditions that I will be shooting in later? Then take a look at how the camera actually meters? I suppose that for slides, the photolab cannot tweak its development? In any case, I am a total novice to slide film, never used it before.

Nope, just grab 1 roll of slide film and shoot under all sorts of conditions with and without flash. Take down all the settings used and use this roll to see if the camera is indeed underexposing as you said. If so, note the conditions under which it fails. If the slides look ok, then there shouldn't be any need to compensate the EV by more than +1/3 for negs.

 

[TME]

Try not to use new equipment that you do not have much experience with at the wedding. The 5600hs flash is wonderful but you have to test how it responds under similar conditions as the wedding dinner with your camera. It is not a time to do experiments. Use of 400 film is generally ok indoors. I have the 3500xi flash but I don't have problems of it underexposing with the omni-bonce and dynax 5. For group shots I try to limit myself to 28mm max widest to prevent distortion and missing flash coverage. I have a ADI flash and lense and they seem to work very well together.

Actually, don't forget to ask what is going to happen there and where will it happen. Need to plan first what and who you gonna shoot. Most of the time you would be too busy concentrating on the event that you do not have much time to even think or change whatever settings you have, especially for your first time.

Yeah I intend to sit down with the couple and ask what the sequence of events and what they specifically want taken. Also intend to ask for a sitting plan of the restaurant so that I can make some preparations as to where and how to shoot. Unfortunately, they'll be using a hotel ballroom, so I can't get in to take a look at the place way before the wedding. At any rate, the ceiling would be very high and I can't get effective bouncing of the ceiling in any way....... and will have to stick to the bounce card.

I have problems with the 3500xi only with the Omni Bounce and when I shoot wider than 24mm.
In the case of the Omni Bounce, I had tried firing both directly and tilted. In the case of direct firing, the effect as I have said was not much different from without the Omni Bounce. So that was disappointing. I expected that the shot would show more diffuse lighting but I still got some hotspots. In the case of tilted flash head, the shots were badly underexposed. I also think that I might have stood too far away from the subject when shooting then...... the light fall off with the Omni Bounce is quite a lot I think..... so finally I just use the low power function of the 3500xi when I take people subjects, the whiteness is much reduced.

I have shot at 24mm and the flash coverage from the 3500xi is still acceptable to me lar..... but anything wider like 19mm or 17mm and the light fall off is just very bad... U can actually see a centre spot of light (circular I think) and then the surroundings of the print is dark or black.

I'll use the 5600HS cos if nothing else for the power and the 17mm diffuser. BTW, if I bounce, would using the diffuser be ok when my focal length is less tha 24mm? Or would the bounce card take care of the wide coverage.

 

[TME]

Nope, just grab 1 roll of slide film and shoot under all sorts of conditions with and without flash. Take down all the settings used and use this roll to see if the camera is indeed underexposing as you said. If so, note the conditions under which it fails. If the slides look ok, then there shouldn't be any need to compensate the EV by more than +1/3 for negs.

Oh! I see....... well as for the camera underexposing, I'm not really sure about that........ it might well be that it's just the 3500xi that does not provide sufficient illumination at the kind of camera-subject distances that I adopt. It's a feeling that I get but the camera did expose very well that night at Mid-Autumn Festival. It was mighty dark except for the stage which was lit only by spot lights. I was using the Minolta 100-400 APO handheld with the 3500xi flash with Kodak ISO400 film. I was on A priority f/5.6-6.7 and with +3.0EV and +1.5EV for flash. Most of my shots were pin sharp with very good colour contrast and saturation. No light fall off was seen. I was like 1-2m away from the subjects..... so it might really be me more than the camera...... haiz...

At any rate, I will be shooting in negatives first...... cos I have no equipment to view slides....... aka no loupe lar........

Thanks a million for your advice. It is as always invaluable. What will I do without the bros at CS........

 

[Zerstorer]

One thing about slides is that you see exactly what you captured. With negatives, you wouldn't know how much the printing lab compensated to salvage ur print. You don't have to worry about a loupe or anything..all you need are eyes and a lightsource. Or you can use the loupes and lightboxes at RGB color when u process ur slides there.

Once you've shot a roll of slides and are satisfied with the exposure, it will erase any doubt you have about the camera's performance. That will help in your confidence when you are doing shoots.

 

[TME]

One thing about slides is that you see exactly what you captured. With negatives, you wouldn't know how much the printing lab compensated to salvage ur print. You don't have to worry about a loupe or anything..all you need are eyes and a lightsource. Or you can use the loupes and lightboxes at RGB color when u process ur slides there.

Once you've shot a roll of slides and are satisfied with the exposure, it will erase any doubt you have about the camera's performance. That will help in your confidence when you are doing shoots.

Well..... think about it....... got some big things to pay off next month..... haiz...... will be putting off buying the flash and Minolta Bounce Reflector V set until Nov..... in the mean time will experiment with ISO400 and my 3500xi...... I'm rather hoping to buy a 2nd hand 5600HS but I was thinking that it might not be advisable cos dun know how heavily the flash was used and may need to replace bulb soon after I buy it..... how much is the bulb anyway? Thought I'd rather buy new when I thought of this point... any advice?

 

[YuHsuan]

I've used the 5600 with my dynax 7 and it covers up to 24mm. You can use the built-in diffuser in the flash but it doesn't make much of a difference.

I understand your anxiety about the uneven flash. Instead of worrying too much about getting a method to distribute light properly, my suggestion is to get assistants to help to arrange the people properly instead. When you get to the table, look hard at the initial arrangment first. If you think it's not good enough, then be firm and polite with them and tell them to change/stand/sit if you think the photo will be better for it. Then use the bounce card with a slower shutter speed if necessary.

Since you also mention that it's a hotel ballroom, be careful of mirrors in the background.

regards

I have problems with the 3500xi only with the Omni Bounce and when I shoot wider than 24mm.
In the case of the Omni Bounce, I had tried firing both directly and tilted. In the case of direct firing, the effect as I have said was not much different from without the Omni Bounce. So that was disappointing. I expected that the shot would show more diffuse lighting but I still got some hotspots. In the case of tilted flash head, the shots were badly underexposed. I also think that I might have stood too far away from the subject when shooting then...... the light fall off with the Omni Bounce is quite a lot I think..... so finally I just use the low power function of the 3500xi when I take people subjects, the whiteness is much reduced.

I have shot at 24mm and the flash coverage from the 3500xi is still acceptable to me lar..... but anything wider like 19mm or 17mm and the light fall off is just very bad... U can actually see a centre spot of light (circular I think) and then the surroundings of the print is dark or black.

I'll use the 5600HS cos if nothing else for the power and the 17mm diffuser. BTW, if I bounce, would using the diffuser be ok when my focal length is less tha 24mm? Or would the bounce card take care of the wide coverage.

 

[Zerstorer]

Well..... think about it....... got some big things to pay off next month..... haiz...... will be putting off buying the flash and Minolta Bounce Reflector V set until Nov..... in the mean time will experiment with ISO400 and my 3500xi...... I'm rather hoping to buy a 2nd hand 5600HS but I was thinking that it might not be advisable cos dun know how heavily the flash was used and may need to replace bulb soon after I buy it..... how much is the bulb anyway? Thought I'd rather buy new when I thought of this point... any advice?

You'll have to decide for yourself. There is always an element of risk involved for 2nd hand items. I've bought 2 flashes 2nd hand and they have yet to fail. The chances of a 5600HS being abused is less as there are less pros using minolta and no DSLRs as of yet. ;p

The 3500xi might not be sufficient for wedding dinner shots, so you will definitely have to get the 5600HS to be safe.

If the ceiling doesn't allow bounce, then it may be best to play it safe and just fire direct with a bit of -EV for flash.

As what YuHsuan mentioned, taking charge of the situation and arranging the guests to work within your equipment limitations would be best.

 

[Gunjack]

If u want to view slides at the absolute cheapest, go to Ruby and get the $5+/- slide viewer. Its actually just a magnifying lense where u can slot the slides in. Not the best quality, but works fine.

For bounce card, I just go to popular bookstore and get the white corregated board(around $3) and cut to size, the biggest size that you can carry and use without looking like a dork , hehe. I velcro strap the DIY bounce card to my flash and it works just fine.

 

[dannynys]

Hi TME,

Wow, you got quite a number of replies from people. Just want to contribute my thoughts on the matter.

Omnibounce works generally with the idea of bouncing of walls/ceiling from a tight enclosed place such as HDB flat. If you are thinking of using it in ballroom, well, it's a lot of spaces which are not to your advantage. It will definitely work out even if you are using Omnibounce, but flash power will be drained faster.

Something helpful will be having adequate batteries for the flash. The flash power need to be recharged, so while you are happily snapping away, do pause a moment in between shots.

I use a 28-70mm len, the range that the group shot will go will probably hover around 28- 35mm. There is not really a need to say 5 sitting or 5 standing. You can just try to fill your frame with people and not empty spaces.

Setting of F5.6 1/30 ISO400 works well enough for the night. If you are not going to blow up the photo to 8R, this setting is a good balance of ambient light with flash. The last time I bought the film at cathay is around $10 for 3 rolls of Fujifilm 400 film. Professional film cost around > $6 per roll.

Helpers should help you to arrange the people in position before even the previous table is done with photo taking.

Plan your shots. You need to know how many tables are there. Which tables are more important that you need extra shots? How many rows of film do you have? Generally 3 rolls is more than enough for 30 tables and the night event.

Last thing, don't panic! Everything will fall in place if you just keep cool.

 

[TME]

Hi TME,

Wow, you got quite a number of replies from people. Just want to contribute my thoughts on the matter.

Omnibounce works generally with the idea of bouncing of walls/ceiling from a tight enclosed place such as HDB flat. If you are thinking of using it in ballroom, well, it's a lot of spaces which are not to your advantage. It will definitely work out even if you are using Omnibounce, but flash power will be drained faster.

Something helpful will be having adequate batteries for the flash. The flash power need to be recharged, so while you are happily snapping away, do pause a moment in between shots.

I use a 28-70mm len, the range that the group shot will go will probably hover around 28- 35mm. There is not really a need to say 5 sitting or 5 standing. You can just try to fill your frame with people and not empty spaces.

Setting of F5.6 1/30 ISO400 works well enough for the night. If you are not going to blow up the photo to 8R, this setting is a good balance of ambient light with flash. The last time I bought the film at cathay is around $10 for 3 rolls of Fujifilm 400 film. Professional film cost around > $6 per roll.

Helpers should help you to arrange the people in position before even the previous table is done with photo taking.

Plan your shots. You need to know how many tables are there. Which tables are more important that you need extra shots? How many rows of film do you have? Generally 3 rolls is more than enough for 30 tables and the night event.

Last thing, don't panic! Everything will fall in place if you just keep cool.

Thanks for the encouragement!!

I was thinking of 5 sitting and 5 standing on the aspect ratio is about right for the 35mm camera....... so I can zoom in to maximise the faces of the people... but I'll be flexible I guess... I intend to use 24mm anyway..

ISO 400 at f/5.6 usually gives 1/60 with flash. If 1/30 means I must go for manual settings?? I am not very confident of manual setting...... hardly use at all........ usually on A Priority....... but I'll try your suggestion when I test shoot a roll of Superia 400 later this motnh (if I have the time).. I was thinking of using 800.. but I will definitely have to blow up some shots........ so hmm...... I just wonder how grainy 800 would look at 8x12..... maybe stick with 400 lar......

When did u buy the 400 film at CP? I bought during May 2002. I wonder if the price has remained at $3.30 still........ I'll probably be bringing 10 rolls along...... I tend to shoot like crazy one....... I hit 17 rolls when I went overseas for a 14 day tour... and I was being conservative I actually brought 30 rolls along......

Anyway I will be asking for the plan of sitting and discuss the sequence of events lar....... like that I can prepare where to stand and what to meter and pre-focus on....... like that can shoot faster and leave more time for composition......

 

[yeocolin]

shot 17 rolls of negatives?? Wow! How much did it cost in all, film, developing and printing fees? You must have a cupboard worth of albums, at the rate of your shooting! Imagine if you had shot your targetted 30 rolls, the cost is astronomical!!